Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. I very much did not buy that she cared about her kids as anything as a means to an end in any other scene, but her breakdown at the end is visceral enough that it muddled that quite a bit.
(Though the Cersei thing is extra ironic because I've actually been considering proposing a version of her from a fanfic who does, IMO, completely shed all redeeming traits. But that might not be anytime soon.)
Well fanfic versions can still count as long as they don’t posses any redeeming qualities
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffQuote suggestion. Having seen the episode now.
John Nolan: Anybody ever tell you you're crazy?
Marcus Lindsey: Sure. But then I burn them to ash
for The Rookie quote.
- Sauron is a Maia who became the servant of the Dark Lord Morogth . In The First Age he and Morogth attempted to whip out the dwarves by supporting a rebellious faction that fought against Durin I and then turned against their allies when victory was imminent, resulting in the death of many dwarves. After Morgoth was defeated Sauron became the new Dark Lord and waged a brutal war to conquer all of Middle-earth. Seemingly killed at the end of the war, Sauron went into hiding and slowly regained his strength over the course of several centuries. On his order the Great Plague was created which devastated the continent and severely weakened the human nations of the East, allowing his armies to conquer and subjugate them. Eventually Sauron would emerged from the shadows again to begin another war against the Free People of Middle-earth.
- Battle of the Black Gate Update: Burudagath the Bloodletter is the ruler of Faltor-shík, the Fane of Screaming. Under his oversight countless prisoners of war and slaves were first tortured and then sacrificed by him onto an altar in the middle of the camp. When the player character attacked Faltor-shík and slayed most his of orcs, Burudagath personally killed his remaining men for failing to stop him. Defeating the player character and strapping him onto his altar, he gleefully claimed that Sauron was going to defeat Aragorn's army at the Black Gate and that he would slowly end the lives of any survivors "one by one".
I think Sauron should be put above Lheu Brenin since he's the main villain for most of the game. Burudagath appears after Brenin and thus should be placed beneath him.
Edited by NTG on Jul 8th 2023 at 3:40:37 AM
Quote works. Don't forget to pothole to the recap page.
Is Burudagath in any of the recap pages here?
- Chase the Express:
- Boris Zugoski is a former KGB Agent turned leader of the Knights of the Apocalypse. Wanted for supplying European and the Middle Eastern insurgents with firearms, Boris works with Phillip Mason to lead a raid on the Blue Harvest to hold French Ambassador Pierre Simon and his family hostage for $20 billion, killing Pierre’s guards and wiping out most of the NATO Special Forces Team sent to stop him. Threatening to launch a nuke over Europe if he doesn’t get his money, it’s revealed after his death that Boris had wired a nuke into the Blue Harvest, hoping to use it to destroy all of France and spread radiation throughout the EU.
- Phillip Mason is Ambassador Pierre’s traitorous secretary. Lusting for power, Mason enables the Knights of the Apocalypse’s attack on the Blue Harvest and all the deaths that it entailed to acquire a disk containing the blueprints to a hydrogen engine that Mason will use to become King of the World, later going forward with Boris’s plan to use the Blue Harvest to destroy France and doom the rest of Europe.
So I'm gonna do this for the current 3:
- The Lord of the Rings Online:
- Sauron
- Vol. 3, Book 4—"Rise of Isengard" (and Book 13—"Helm's Deep"): Lheu Brenin
- Battle of the Black Gate Update (Vol. 4, Book 8—"The Black Gate"): Burudagath the Bloodletter
Quick one now:
What's the work?
The Last Broadcast is a horror film and one of the earliest found footage and mockumentary types. A group of documentary filmmakers entered the Pine Barrens to do a documentary on the Jersey Devil. David Leigh is cataloging everything behind the murders and the conviction of psychic Jim Suerd. Except there's a twist...
Who is David Leigh?
A sadistic murderer who's out to make the perfect film. Years ago, Leigh was the one who stalked the documentary crew out into the woods and brutally murdered the lot of them. The only one spared was Suerd and Leigh manipulated everything to make him look guilty, resulting in his conviction.
Leigh continues to make his masterpiece film. After having tormented the crew and slaughtered them, Suerd is suspected of being innocent but dies "mysteriously" in prison. When a data retrieval expert pieces things back together, she realizes Leigh is the murderer and was caught on tape.
Only for Leigh to ambush and murder her. With his film done, though the public will soon be aware, he's still on the loose.
Mitigating issues?
Not a one. A crazed, sadistic director murdering numerous people to deliver his messaging about film.
Conclusion?
Simple keep.
Yes to David.
Now, maybe call me old fashioned, but do we really need all that extra stuff about where in story line the Lord of the Rings Online candidates are? To me it looks awful and I'd be happy just listing their names and nothing else.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.I prefer to have where they appear; at the VERY least like this:

Yeah, j has it right. Annabella is an absolutely godawful person...but the Cersei comparison is genuinely apt in that she does care about her kids on some level, to me. Her death has some nuance, but I could chalk that up to simply Even Evil Can Be Loved...yet that's not my issue. She openly expresses sadness that she lost Joshua more than once (admittedly, it's usually used for insulting Clive), is shocked in an ambiguously caring way to hear he's still alive, and her reaction when Olivier is killed is way, way too genuinely horrified for me to say she only saw him as an heir or power play. She's screaming bloody murder at the sight and winds up killing herself in a panicking frenzy in the same scene.
The "purebloodedness" of her noble line was absolutely a part of why she wants kids and dotes on them, but the fact that she reacts so viscerally when Olivier in particular is killed pretty firmly pushes her from "sees kids as extensions of herself" to "actually cares about them", I think.
Edited by Ravok on Jul 7th 2023 at 11:01:02 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!