Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Carrot Clone
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mehmed
Yes to Extended Addition!Mehmed.
Next, is a duo:
What's the work?
The Mother was a film released for Mother's Day, starring none other than Jennifer Lopez as an assassin and CIA agent who broke from her ex-lovers Adrian Lovell and Hector Alvarez...when a rendezvous goes wrong, the only thing she cares about is separated from her: her newborn daughter.
But years later, her enemies return. Let's talk our villains: Adrian and Hector
Who are Hector Alvarez and Adrian Lovell?
Hector Alvarez is an arms dealer The Mother (name never revealed), facilitated a deal between the duo, as Adrian was an ex-SAS marine with the two providing weapons to the military and other figures abroad. Both were romantically involved with the Mother, who got pregnant (not revealed who the father is) with a daughter named Zoe.
Unfortunately, the two got a taste of the high life and aimed for a little something extra. Cutting the Mother out of their dealings? She discovered a shipment. The two had many clients who liked "something extra" and began kidnapping children to sell as sex slaves. Disgusted, she went to the FBI to turn them in, but it went wrong. Alvarez sent his men with Adrian, and the FBI agents were slaughtered except Agent Cruise. Adrian barely survived, and shot the Mother in the stomach. H Er baby lived and she put it up for adoption with a foster family, living alone in Alaska off the grid with Cruise sending her a photo every year of her daughter.
Then the villains decide to lure her out of hiding and kidnap Zoe. The Mother gets involved and hunts down Hector in his home in Havana, brutally knifing him to death. Adrian murders Cruise in return, and later tries to abduct Zoe from Alaska. a esulting fight (Where Adrian tries to kill Zoe and kidnap her again after), ends as the Mother snipes him through the head.
Mitigating issues?
Not a damn thing. They're child sex traffickers and have no compunction murdering a girl who may be their daughter. Both of them. Adrian even has a bead on Zoe at one point and says if the Mother doesn't give herself up, he'll "end her potential" right there. Neither is written with a hint of good qualities.
Conclusion?
Easy keepers.
Carrot Clone
Mother duo
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the duo and Mehmed.
Dracula Untold I assume? First for Dominic Cooper?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I have a proposal from the You Tube channel Web Animation/Mashed. They have a series called There's Something About and part of this series features Knuckles. I would like to present the Greater Scope Villain for the "There's Something About Knuckles" series.
Who is he? What did he do?
Baron Robotnik is the archenemy of Sonic in the Titan Universe. Having attacked the city multiple times in the past, Baron sought to destroy their home once and for all using the power of the Chaos Emeralds. After having discovered one, he cracks it open only for it to fuse with him and turn him into an uncontrollable Kaiju.
Sonic chases the Kaiju down to it's lair and Baron is there waiting for him, suffering from the side effects of fusing with the Chaos Emeralds. Sonic takes pity on Baron and offers to help, to which Baron points Sonic to the cure in the form of a red liquid in a needle. After Sonic injects it into Baron, Baron all of a sudden starts laughing and reveals that the creature can't be destroyed and only transferred, meaning that he tricked Sonic into getting the creature into him as an act of spite. While Sonic violently gets fused with the emeralds, Baron says one last "Your turn" before withering away and dying.
Mitigating Factors?
Baron is taken completely seriously outside of Sonic and his friends calling him "Eggman". However, it doesn't detract with his limit screen time how much of a monster he is. Outside of this, he has no redeeming features.
Heinous Standard?
This is the tricky part because the There's Something Series is a lot more dark and edgier than most of Mashed. While it usually relies on Ron the Death Eater, Robotnik has been always an evil character.
While he might pale in comparison to Secret Histories! Tails, Baron has his own crimes due to being responsible for all the chaos and destruction that Sonic causes in the first few episodes. The first three are what happened after Sonic gets fused whereas Episodes 4-5 are Tails' recounting of the events that happens before.
Baron's crimes in order are attempting to destroy the city by mining chaos emeralds followed by unintentionally fusing with them and turning into a Kaiju. When he returns to normal, he tricks Sonic into becoming the Kaiju as the final act of spite before dying, causing the conflicts of the first three episodes.
Verdict?
Baron to me is a big
Edited by TBmacho22 on May 28th 2023 at 9:23:13 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Mehmed II, Hector Alvarez, and Adrian Lovell.
to Hector Alvarez and Adrian Lovell.
Unsure about Baron Robotnik.
Writeup for Stepan:
- Sled, "The Roma Woman": Stepan Vorobyov is a crime boss and a leader of a small but brutal gang who frightened the witnesses at his trial into silence and got a much lighter sentence than he deserved. He pretends to be a reformed, respectable man, but never really changes, mentally tormenting his son Andrey. After learning Andrey has a Roma girlfriend, Stepan threatens to burn the entire Roma camp unless he breaks up with her. When Andrey refuses, Stepan makes good on his threat and not only burns down the camp but stands by with his goons and shoots the survivors who try to flee, killing at least 18 people this way. He bribes the government and the police into recording all the deaths as accidental, and Andrey's girlfriend Nina, the only one to escape the massacre, later remarks that Stepan isn't human at all.
The Obsessive Void
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Barron Robotnik, for one reason. All of the destruction caused by the monster is the sole responsibility of the curse, and we see with Sonic that it completely robs one of free will. The only evil thing we see on screen from the Barron is transferring the curse. Evil and spiteful? Yes. Enough for CM? NO. Especially since the curse out heinousness the Barron, with dialogue implying he operated similar to the Cannon Videogame Robotnik until the curse consumed him. We literally only see him do one evil thing of his own will.
To the Sultan and Mother duo
...Phenomenal
for The Mother duo.
Not really sure for Robotnik, I'm a little concerned about heinousness? Having not watched the videos, the trope page is giving me the impression the whole series is meant to be extremely dark and even the EP says Tails is apparently worse.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Harbinger of Cringe
Gonna give a to Robotnik. I do not agree with the heinousness argument at all, we explicitly see that he wants to reduce Sonic's town to dust, really transferring the curse to him was essentially making his worst enemy do the work for him, which in my opinion is especially heinous considering he 100% knew of the destructive capabilities of being the Titan considering he was it previously.
There's Something About Knuckles (Part 4)
There's Something About Knuckles (Part 5)
Here are the videos btw
Edited by Splonk on May 28th 2023 at 7:59:08 AM
My mere presence makes everyone's day worse.
I guess I can give Robotnik a For now until someone else has a compelling argument against him
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Where does Stepan go in the tree?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
It's the 29th so are folks alright with me pencilling a reservation for the 5th Indiana Jones film? Collabs are welcome!
Yes to Lighty's lot
Unsure on Robotnik.
A million brain cells? That seems excessively destructive...
Lizzid people!
Abstaining on Robotnik. Isn't Mashed typically known for comedic animations?
Harbinger of Cringe
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
There's Something About Amy and by proxy There's Something About Knuckles are both played as straight serialized plots as opposed to black comedies.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Hey, you want to collab with me on that, Wet?
Mehmed and Mother duo….. Jesus, the latter duo sounds absolutely despicable.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
@Scraggle Sure! I'll pencil you in for it as well.
EDIT: Done it.
Edited by WetFlannels on May 28th 2023 at 4:27:38 PM
A million brain cells? That seems excessively destructive...
To be a Master
for Mother duo and abstain on Baron Robotnik for now.
Anyways, here's my write-up for Ganondorf. I've be on family vacation to Yellowstone National Park for about a week, so my time here be limited for now.
The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom: Demon King Ganondorf was once a Gerudo chieftain who sought to conquer Hyrule since the kingdom's founding days. Desiring the power of the Zonai Secret Stones, Ganondorf murders Queen Sonia and steals her Secret Stone to transform himself into the Demon King. With his newfound powers, Ganondorf creates an army of demons and monsters to sweep over Hyrule and kill all who would oppose him, including his own people, in the cataclysmic Imprisoning War until he is sealed away by King Rauru in the final battle. As several millennia went by, Ganondorf's malice manages to leak through the seal, forming into Calamity Ganon, a primal force of evil that brought destruction upon Hyrule for countless generations, with the last one bringing the kingdom's collapse. After freeing himself in present day, Ganondorf resumes his destructive campaign by unleashing monsters, saboteurs, and natural disasters upon the races of Hyrule, promising to end his conquest with no survivors. A narcissistic, sociopathic monster of a man — lacking the redeeming or tragic qualities of his past incarnations — Ganondorf believes himself to be superior to everyone else and thus deserves to rule Hyrule as he sees fit. And when faced with defeat by Link and the Sages, he swallows his Secret Stone to become the Demon Dragon, sacrificing his mind and body for the power to destroy Link and plunge Hyrule into the 'eternal night' of destruction and despair.
EDIT: I just realized that Utah's timezone is in central rather than pacific.
Edited by Shadao on May 28th 2023 at 8:41:42 AM
The Dragon
I have a couple concerns off the bat about the Ganondorf writeup. First, the beginning part seems to skirt around him being a brutal warlord, touching too lightly on it IMO. Second, although the "leave no survivors" thing is shown by him after his return, it's him showing a memory of his time as a warlord, so I think that should be moved to earlier. (Granted, I haven't finished, so it's possible he did that afterwards, too.)
EDIT: less off the bat, my third concern: phrasing it as past incarnations. I think "other" incarnations would be more fitting due to the general continuity thing.
Edited by AuraGuardian on May 28th 2023 at 12:08:39 PM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Mehmed
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her