Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
I was concerned about whether Tsao does enough for a person with a vampires and dragons to work with. But thinking about it, he would have to have Jing King hostage for months to successfully have multiple children, and Jing King would have gotten raped multiple times during this time. I am giving a
to Tsao.
Edited by Flowman on May 6th 2023 at 6:07:52 AM
After rechecking it, i think there are couple more candidates that can be proposed from Dice Man
What's the Work?
Dice Man is a 5 issue Gamebook comic spin-off of 2000 AD. Following different protagonists from that comic verse, including an original character, created specifically for this comic, Rick Fortune, the stories are barely connected together, instead serving as a different narrative with different endings, depending on how lucky with the dices you are.
My first candidate comes from Sláine stories from this Gamebook. While the first story's villain isn't heinous enough, a villain from a second
and third
story deserves a shot.
My candidate is Elfric.
Who is Elfric?
A being, called a Dev-El, who enjoys to being death and destruction to the mortals, while harboring an utter hatred for Slaine himself, Elfric debuted in his dragon form, being unearthed by the dwarves from the village (who also removed some magical artifacts, that held him there), after which he laid waste to their land and killed several dwarves, afterwards unleashing monsters upon the destroyed village to kill anyone they see.
The dwarves then sended several young dwarven women to be sacrificed to the dragon to appease him, among whom was the wife of Slaine's dwarven companion, Pona. Going to save her, Slaine and Ukko go through multiple evil creatures, before they confronted the dragon, who was in the process of devouring one of the women. Starting a battle with Slaine, after Slaine defeated the dragon, Elfric (who has revealed that he simply used the dragon as a vessel) come out of the dragon and started to fight Slaine. Should Elfric get a hold of a magical shield, Dormath-Death's Door, he would unleash all monsters from Hel upon the Earth. In the seemengly canon ending, Slaine managed to defeat Elfric and banish him away.
In the second story, Slaine was sent to the Otherworld to get the Ring of Danu the Earth Goddess, where he must go through all aspects of Earth Goddess, The Maiden of Spring, The Woman of Summer and the Hag of Winter. Along the way Elfric contantly tried to get him off the trail and hunt him down and kill him, which he can succeed or fail and get killed by Slaine, depending on the ending.
Mitigating Qualities?
While openly evil otherwise, when Slaine killed him demonic dog in the second story, Elfric furiosly screamed "Murderer" at him, after which he get's calm again and instead of attacking Slaine, decided it will be more fun to hunt him down, when he will least expect it and retreats. I kinda doubt it can be chalked that he actually cared about the dog, other than it being a powerful minion, since he was never shown to be caring about it before sending it to battle Slaine (he decided against fighting him himself that time, due to Slaine possessing Iron weapons, which are Elfric's weakness) or after (he never mentions it again), it just goes like "You Killed My Favourite Hound! Eh, whatever.".
Heinousness?
While there are few mass murderers in this short comic series, Elfric's goal of unleashing the feral and vile monsters upon the Earth kinda gives him a push from me, since they are shown to be extremely malicious and (aside from one monster in that story) all constantly and gleefully trying to torture, mutilate and kill anyone they see, which clearly indicates how much of a big and global threat it is. Also, him destroying the village of otherwise innocent dwarves and killing and devouring most of them gives him a bodycount, which gives a bit more of heinousness to him.
Conclusion?
What do you think?
And to finish this, here is my last candidate from Dice Man
From Rogue Trooper's story "Space Zombies" in the final issue
Who is General Hayg?
The former Souther genral, Hayg decided to pursue his own ambitions and slaughtered his personal guard and retreated to his secret base, after which he managed to capture the family of genetic clones, whom Rogue Trooper saved in the previous story. Using said family to create an army of genetically mutated zombie super soldiers, Hayg intended to unleash them at both the Southers and the Norts to slaughter them and rule the world, since he saw that there will be no ending to the war between the Southers and the Norts.
As Rogue Trooper arrived at his base, he travels across it and fights through Zombie Super Soldiers, among whom was the mutated father of kidnapped family. Planning to use the child of said family in his brutal experiments, Hayg will greet Rogue Trooper, should he be able to arrive to him, also capturing the mother of the family in most of the routes. There the General will offer a deal with Rogue Trooper, should he surrender his life and gears (which is where the bio-chips with the minds of his dead companions reside) in exchange for him sparing the life of the mother and the child. Should Rogue Trooper accept, the General will immediatly backstab him and begins a brutal experiments on him, while openly planning to also experiment on both mother and the child.
Rogue Trooper also can sacrifice a child's life to kill the General, only this will results in furious mother killing Rogue Trooper. In the best ending, Rogue Trooper manages to outsmart the General and mke him go careless aroudn his rifle, which results in bio-chip with the mind of a deceased trooper to kill the General, while both mother and the son will remain alive.
Mitigating Qualities?
None.
Heinousness?
Hyag is one of the couple villains in the comic, who is explicitly plans to murder millions with his army, with it being stated in the comic, that his plan would resulted in millions of deaths. His experiments on an innocent family and a child also make him stand out to me.
Conclusion?
What do you think?
Apologies if this is a double post but I got a question about whether this guy is worth the EP.
Now the classic Tomb Raider continuity has a nasty standard with either global threats or nasty experiments. In my EP for Natla I had noted that the bad guy from the second game Marco Bartoli has the crimes of punching his Co pilot and murdering a man.
However one thing I didn't consider was how he had his men attack the Barkhang Monastery and kill any monks that get in their way. He himself is shown to be within Tibet as Lara escapes him pursuing her. Would him having his guys attack the Monastery be bad enough to EP do you think?
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
The level is full of them, I wouldn't be able to get a specific counter without replaying the level and counting but it's easily the double digits.
I should note that in the level the monks do fight Marcos thugs but the gameplay showcases that they're benign and friendly until attacked first.
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
for Elfric and General Hayg.
Looked up more stuff on Snee
. So apparently this new article
shows Snee having lured a crew of humans and androids to a planet dubbed "New Earth" in an attempt to recreate the Ancient Ones using humanity as a whole. She and her crew known as the Brothers and Sisters of Soil wiped out thousands of villagers from a reptilian-alien race and buried their corpses underground prior to all this. The terrorists also deployed a magnetic field around New Earth so that it would gradually deteriorate all forms of non-Septed technology (this includes Gynoids, like the news reporter Jane Crocker who presumably dies at the end of a transmission in the article). This would also mean anyone who tried to rescue those stranded on the planet would have no means of escape, since the rescue ships would break down before anyone had time to safely leave the planet after entering its atmosphere.
So yeah, feels like a better case can be made for her.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Yes to Elfric and Hayg.
- Mister Miracle: The Great Escape: Granny Goodness is the cruel head of the Apokoliptan Goodness Academy, where future generations of soldiers are trained to follow Darkseid's will. Domineering and authoritarian, Granny has her Furies terrorize their fellow students and shows no care for the countless students she has shipped off to die for Darkseid's cause. Granny's greatest form of "love" for the academy's failures—even among her own, loyal Furies—is the X-Pit, a massive maze of death traps and genetically-engineered monsters that only one person, Scott Free, has ever escaped from. Tasked by Darkseid to break Scott's will, Granny turns his friends against him and begins planning to ship them off to the front lines of war, intent on throwing Scott himself back into the X-Pit upon his graduation and ascending to the glory of Darkseid's inner circle for her service.
- "Down the Rabbit Hole" & "DOA for a Day": "Suspect X" is an enigmatic assassin who takes pleasure in profiting off of murder, using a "recursive spider" to find keywords that lead her to potential clients. Having tortured and murdered a woman to obtain her virtual avatar "Venus", X intends on using Venus as a means of reaching her target, a New York Congressman. Under the threat of exposure from Venus's online paramour "Don Juan 2-3", X kills him to silence him. Confronted online by NYPD Detective Mac Taylor, X lures Mac's avatar into a virtual gallery containing dozens of her past targets, then has the Crime Lab's computers infected with a virus. Upon resurfacing, X captures a similar looking woman—subjecting her captive to torture and inhumane conditions while having a disgraced plastic surgeon client-turned-accomplice perform plastic surgery on her—subsequently murdering her to fake her own death. After antagonizing the NYPD once she realizes they are on her trail, and murdering the surgeon once he is exposed, X is discovered to have posed as an audio technician in order to set up a city official's assassination.
- "Party Down": Neal Cooper is a seemingly unimposing young man who blames others for his feelings of isolation. To this end, Neal sets up a party for at least 20 people on a truck where he plans on killing the attendees—including four people he specifically invited from his past—having hot-wired the truck, padlocked the rear entry, and welded the emergency exit shut. While the party is going on, Neal commandeers the truck into the Hudson River so it can sink. Rescued by an intended victim when he is himself trapped, Neal kills his rescuer when he realizes the latter can finger him as the perpetrator. Subsequently, Neal hides among the survivors to throw suspicion off of himself. Even when confronted by NYPD Detectives Mac Taylor and Jo Danville with the evidence against him, Neal refuses to take responsibility for his actions.

As for Le Paradox...his standout crimes amount to "treats his allies really, really badly while empowering them to do bad stuff", but none of them except Penelope get up to the villainy that the Fiendish Five does under Clockwerk's purview, and Le Paradox's scheme otherwise is just threatening the heroes. Shame since he's so despicable but I don't quite think the actions are there.
As of now, I don't think anyone else counts, and we don't have plans for anyone else...Octavio is the only other world boss who really stands out but even then he's a bit too silly and not quite bad enough.
Edited by Ravok on May 6th 2023 at 4:14:55 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!