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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
PeterVanHelsing Since: Sep, 2019
#13502: May 6th 2023 at 1:08:00 PM

  • Flash Gordon (1980) first draft script by Lorenzo Semple, Jr.: Ming the Merciless is the tyrant ruler of the planet Mongo. When the lizard men of Mongo rebelled against him, Ming enslaved them and forced them to work in awful conditions, with those who collapse and are unable to get back up being thrown into the magma. Directing an energy beam at Earth purely for the reason that the planet exists without paying homage to him, Ming intends to wipe out all life on Earth before repopulating it in his own image, bragging about having already done so on a thousand planets. For this task he intends to use the Earth woman Dale Arden, fully intending to discard her when he grows weary of her, having already done so to the mother of his daughter Aura.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#13503: May 6th 2023 at 1:20:57 PM

[tup] to Sick Sisters and the Boss.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#13504: May 6th 2023 at 1:27:03 PM

[tup]the boss

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#13507: May 6th 2023 at 2:07:19 PM

The EP that survives will inherit the title of 'Boss'.

([tup])

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#13508: May 6th 2023 at 2:15:35 PM

I don't think this entry in the Drafts was approved:

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#13509: May 6th 2023 at 2:20:22 PM

[tup] to the Ruiner villains.

[up] Yeah, she sounds almost comically generic, pretty sure it wasn't run through.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#13510: May 6th 2023 at 2:21:02 PM

I've watched that film a couple of times. Bog standard bad guy.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#13512: May 6th 2023 at 2:37:15 PM

  • Fallout: New Vegas: Roy Gottlieb is the head of the Justice Bloc, the mover-and-pusher of power in the social disaster named Vault 11. The one who elects human sacrifices in the Vault by power of majority, Roy has no good intentions in doing so and only acted to consolidate his power. In his lowest move, Roy forcez a woman named Kate into becoming the sex slave for him and the entire Justice Bloc for a month by threatening to elect her husband—choosing the man because he beat him in checkers—before sacrificing her husband anyway. When Kate becomes Overseer and tries to upend Roy's system, Roy initiated a fascist crackdown, toppling the dominos that lead to the death of almost everyone in the Vault.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#13513: May 6th 2023 at 2:46:35 PM

[tup] Ruiner candidates.

So I'm normally iffy about "Small crimes, big goals" candidates, but I thought I'd give this one a shot.

Today I bring up the Romancing the Stone duology, an Affectionate Parody of the romantic adventure genre; focusing on Joan Wilder, a novelist of the genre forced to leave the comfort of New York when her sister is abducted by a Colombian crime boss, being roped into a treasure hunt for ransom. On her quest, she is joined by an adventurous rogue, Jack Colton, whom she ends up falling in love with. Now the first film itself isn't the topic; its villain, Colonel Zolo is too shrouded in Offscreen Villainy and doesn't do much besides trying to kill the protagonists.

The same could not be said for the sequel, Jewel of the Nile - a year after the first film, Jack and Joan's romance goes stale as Joan tires of travelling the world with him, and Jack is reluctant to settle down. On top of that, Joan has writer's block. During a book signing in New York, Joan is approached by supposed Dictator, Omar Khalifa, who wooes Joan into coming abroad with him to write an autobiography. From there, Jack, Joan and their comic relief enemy Ralph, get roped into a rescue mission, and having to stop Khalifa's plans to conquer Northern Africa.

Anyways, the candidate in question is Omar himself.

Who is Omar ? What does he do ?

An expy of Saddam Hussien and Muammar Gaddafi, Omar is the dictator over Afro-Arab country of Kadir, having a bad rep for bringing his country into civil war. He is also a fan of Joan Wilder's books, to the point that he based his army's uniforms off those in one of her books. Arriving in New York at one of her book signings, Omar charms Joan while she's going through writer's block, appealing to her romanticisms by selling herself as the leader his country and the Arab world needs; he asks her to pen a biography to clear up the international "misunderstandings" of his rule. Joan accepts the deal but Jack refuses to go with.

When Joan arrives to Kadir, she's invited as a guess to his palace, and initially overlooks the red flags; be it the police state his city is in, a torture chamber were a victim could be heard screaming, and an attempted assassination by a freedom fighter back in New York. Though Joan witnessing his "police force" try to arrest and shoot a kid over graffiti is a little much to overlook, at which point she learns that he is intending to rally the tribes behind him and kickstart war and conquest across North Africa. When Omar confronts her, he has her imprisoned before claiming to have killed Jack; before they left New York, Omar had a bomb placed on Jack's ship, setting it to detonate when they left.

Unknown to them, Jack was accidentally rescued by his and Joan's former antagonist, Ralph and they were both conscripted by Omar's would be assassin to join the freedom fighters against him, revealing that Omar has stolen the titular "Jewel of the Nile" from his people; Jack joins to rescue Joan; Ralph joins under the impression the Jewel is an actual jewel and that he'd get a cut.

As it turns out the "Jewel of the Nile" is the title of Kadir's spiritual leader, Al-Juhara, whom Omar has abducted and tortured to sell to his people that he is a prophet who will unite the Arab world and rule it's nations. Omar also hired a British special effects team to help fake miracles at a public rally. Al-Juhara meets Joan in Omar's prison and the two escape in time for Jack to reach the palace. There a battle breaks out with Omar's army and the resistance, which sees numerous fighters killed. Jack and Joan escape with Al-Juhara into the desert, and they opt to bring him to Kadir's capital to expose and overthrow Omar.

However, they are soon captured en-route to the city, with Omar preparing a "special" execution for Jack and Joan; based off of one of Joan's books, Omar has them hand from a deep pit; one rope is slowly eaten away by acid, while the other is eaten by rats; all to make sure that one will watch the other die. Luckily they are rescued by Ralph during Omar's presentation. They disrupt his special effects artist from his crane, exposing Omar's charade. A fight breaks out, as well as a fire, during which Omar corners Joan and prepares to kill her; Jack swings in from the crane and knocks Omar to his fiery death.

Mitigating Qualities ?

Nah. He's a Faux Affably Evil narcissist.

Omar is a fan of Joan's, but it really doesn't go beyond that - in fact he attempts to execute her and Jack with a death trap inspired by one of her books. While Omar doesn't kill Al-Juhara, it's purely out of pragmatism; Al-Juhara says that even Omar is too superstitious to kill him, so instead Omar settles for abducting and torturing him. He also knows when he's beat, with his last words stating he knows he's done for, but he's gonna settle for taking Joan with him.

Where I have my issue is, Omar is a "Small crimes, big goals villain". Objectively, he is the worst character in the duology; Colonel Zolo from the first movie is too shrouded in Offscreen Villainy and is a bit a chump when put into action (Jack nearly kills Zolo in their first encounter, mid way through the movie). Omar on the other hand, is a dictator who brought his country under civil war, his army has a decent bodycount during the battle sequence, and Omar plots to start a war for conquest across North Africa, uniting his peoples tribes behind him as a false prophet. He also tries to execute Jack and Joan in a cruel and twisted manner, based on one of her books no less.

So yeah, he's a nasty customer on paper. My concern is the movie doesn't focus that much on the effects his tyranny has on his people, beyond a quick scene where his militia try to shoot a kid for spray painting. And while the battle sequence has a bodycount, most of the people being killed are resistance fighters, which in my book isn't on the same level as say a civilian massacre. There's a reason I'm iffy about these kinds of villains.

Though, unlike Zolo, we at least have tangible evidence of his villainy on screen, mainly his country's civil war. Both Al-Juhara and the freedom fighters state that Omar is a mass murderer and if convinces his people he's their prophet , he'll lead his armies through North Africa like a madman.

Edited by Beast on May 6th 2023 at 2:47:05 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#13514: May 6th 2023 at 2:53:31 PM

I'm fine with Omar.

Okay, another Scravok! We have some world bosses to relitigate from Sly Cooper.

Starting from the first game:

    What has Sir Raleigh done? 
  • The first member of the Fiendish Five and the Starter Villain of the game (and series), Sir Raleigh lacks the excuses and redeeming qualities of Clockwerk's other minions. He was just a rich prick who, bored of his lifestyle, turned to piracy For the Evulz.
  • The five's machinist, Raleigh uses a storm machine to plunge the Isle of Wrath into a perpetual storm. Through this he's sunken dozens of ships and planes, their crews wiped out. Not only is the Isle of Wrath covered in derelict shipyards, Raleigh has a sort-of trophy collection of the remains of ships and aircraft he's downed within the hull of his own ship. He's also a Bad Boss not above threatening to flog them and reprimanding them for not being even more efficiently murderous:
    "" I say chaps, my heartiest congratulations to you all! The storm machine has sunk its fiftieth ship last night, and the loot has already been unloaded. Our operation is moving along splendidly, with the possible exception being the grounds negligence displayed below decks. And, I demand the boilers stay at full pressure at all times! If you lazy, low-brow, technically incompetent pack of guttersnipes did your jobs right, we'd have sunk 100 ships by now! But of course, fifty boats is a fine, fine achievement. Carry on, my boys, carry on."
    "Ahoy, dock hands! Capital job unloading that cargo last night. You're the crown jewel of my operation. Do me the service of proving your worth yet again by protecting the treasure key that I have stored down there. It appears there's a prowler on the premises. And if any of you let him get his hands on that key, I'll personally flog the lot of you! For an entire fortnight!"
  • Raleigh is confronted by Sly for his piece of the Thievius Raccoonus (which Raleigh keeps in the same place as his trophy gallery). Raleigh mocks Sly about the death of his parents and says his only regret was not snuffing out Sly as a kid as well, before engaging Sly in a boss fight.
    Heinous standard? 
  • The one thing we should note is the representation of heinousness. Sly Cooper has a weird and often inconsistent relationship with representing onscreen death. In one case you'll get Dr. M fatally poisoning a mook and boredly calling a janitor to mop up the corpse; other times you'll get a villain who should keep easily like Neyla, but the worst aspects of their scheme are muffled by Fridge Horror.
  • Raleigh is sort of on the cusp here, but I think he makes it. If the game doesn't outright point out he massacres the crew of the ships he sinks, the game still implies it as heavily as it can for the E-rating. Not only has Raleigh sunken dozens of ships, they were all explicitly cargo ships, with loot Raleigh has plundered. The crews of these ships are never seen again, but it's pretty damn clear Raleigh's killed them; he's shown sinking flaming ships in his introductory cutscene, and his graveyard full of trophies implies a very large body count.
  • The one and only world boss in the series who really explicitly match him for body count is the Panda King (who buried a village with an avalanche, complete with him requesting his minions be on the look out for any vengeful survivors) but Raleigh's body count is near to equal with his—and the Panda King ends up redeeming himself. Raleigh is treated as scum to the end.
    Redeeming qualities? 
  • No. This goes into the idea of exceptionalism, as well; while most of the Fiendish Five and most other world bosses in the series have excuses and redeeming qualities, Raleigh is intentionally differentiated from them with his complete lack of any excuse.

Edited by Scraggle on May 6th 2023 at 4:32:05 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#13515: May 6th 2023 at 2:53:33 PM

Honestly voting no. I’ve seen it and he’s pretty generic. It’s too vague as an ultimate goal. Just generic “conquer” for Omar. But yea to he above

Edited by Lightysnake on May 6th 2023 at 2:53:53 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#13516: May 6th 2023 at 2:57:01 PM

Sure to Raleigh.

Where should Roy go on the page compared to the others?

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#13518: May 6th 2023 at 2:58:26 PM

Now, this was not a EP I was expecting. But in any case, [tup] Raleigh.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#13520: May 6th 2023 at 3:13:14 PM

Yes to Raleigh, eagerly.

And for my half of this little collab...coming from Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves, specifically Episode 4 "A Cold Alliance":

Who is General Tsao? What has he done?

  • A brutal warlord from the Northern mountains of China, General Tsao comes from a long line of villainous conquerors, with designs on securing his legacy forever.
  • In this venture, Tsao tricks the honorable Panda King into going into a meditative slumber for many long months, so that Tsao can effortlessly kidnap Panda King's beloved daughter Jing King. Tsao intends on forcibly marrying Jing King, and forcing her to bear his children for a "glorious bloodline".
  • When Panda King is finally snapped out of his coma-like meditation by Sly and the gang, they team with him to rescue Jing King. Tsao keeps Jing King locked in a room and regularly mocks her over their coming marriage and "blossoming love"; unleashes hordes of undead vampires onto the streets of his city to ward off Sly, uncaring of the locals they terrorize; and kidnaps Murray, strapping him to a bomb with intent to blow him up in full view of the Cooper gang.
  • Though Sly and the gang manage to secretly rescue Jing King, Tsao tries to destroy the entire Cooper gang once and for all by unleashing a giant dragon on them, which takes Penelope hostage and nearly kills them all. Tsao is ultimately beaten when, fooled into thinking he still has Jing King in his possession, he attempts to carry out the wedding; only for Inspector Carmelita Fox to ambush and arrest him for his crimes.

Mitigating features?

Lol, no. None at all. Tsao is quite possibly the biggest Hate Sink in the games; he is an elitist, misogynistic pig who Sly flat out notes of, "I've faced a lot of bad men in my time. But you sir, are the worst." Furthermore, Bentley notes that during surveillance, he witnessed Tsao kick a puppy. Twice.

Heinousness?

So, Tsao's rapsheet is a bit limited, with trying to kill the heroes and unleashing dragons and vampires to terrorize the city being nasty but not too standout, but what is pushing him over the line is that...the game, for its rating of E10+? Is as clear as can be that Tsao is a rapist who wants Jing King for breeding. Tsao spells out that "Once our bloodlines cross, it shall be glorious! With the Tsao name, a new generation of Kings will be unstoppable!", and when Sly demands she be let go, noting she doesn't want it? Tsao proclaims "She's a woman, she doesn't know up from down! Once I "convinced" her father to take up meditation, she was ripe for the picking."

Jing King is shown flat out sobbing in terror at what is to come, pleading with Tsao "Please, my father will be so worried! Just let me tell him I'm alright. I beg of you, Tsao, let me out of this prison! Is this the way you woo your wife? You have shown me nothing but cruelty. I am so unhappy!", to which Tsao later notes "Do not worry, my bride— I will not let anything prevent our love from blossoming, not even your misguided attempts to escape."

This isn't Bowser trying to have a silly traditional wedding while wooing Peach with gifts and music because he genuinely adores her; Tsao is explicitly holding Jing King hostage so he can force her to marry him and bear his children. The game says everything but "RAPIST", and it's made more than clear enough. And with that in mind? Tsao is operating with a niche no other villain remotely nears; the breadth of what he wants to do Jing King is never approached by any other villains, and it pushes him way past the bar.

Final Verdict?

I think it's made damn clear what Tsao is planning for Jing King, and he's a keep.

Edited by Ravok on May 6th 2023 at 3:17:04 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#13522: May 6th 2023 at 3:20:21 PM

Yes to both Sly Cooper guys! Nice catch guys!

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#13523: May 6th 2023 at 3:22:24 PM

I honestly wondering if Tsao could potentially count but I wasn't sure, but yeah, he'l definitely a vile bastard, with Sly outright calling him one of the worst villains he confronted. Plus, his implied desire to RAPE Jing King is a big yikes, especially for a kids game. [tup] Tsao.

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#13524: May 6th 2023 at 3:22:37 PM

@Scraggle

Shouldn’t the Roy Gottlieb entry be past tense since he’s a Posthumous Character?

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#13525: May 6th 2023 at 3:24:32 PM

While I didn't think much of them at first [tup] Raleigh and Tsao.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

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