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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#12576: Apr 27th 2023 at 1:28:38 AM

[tup] To Farnoq, Cain, Murasama trio and Ustad

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#12577: Apr 27th 2023 at 1:39:19 AM

[tup] to Fanroq and Blackwell.

Bow to the Prototype
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12579: Apr 27th 2023 at 3:13:58 AM

Curious, what's the count for Caesar?

Yes to Cain; Muramasa trio; Jaelani; Dahn.

Edited by ACW on Apr 27th 2023 at 6:27:25 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#12580: Apr 27th 2023 at 3:33:41 AM

Like nine upvotes against two downvotes and a bunch of abstentions.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#12581: Apr 27th 2023 at 4:22:22 AM

What is the work?

Timelines is Ninjago fanfic writen by Princess Fox Space Ninja. Sometimes after season 6 Pythor steals time machine and uses it to prevent defeat of the Overlord during 3 season. Lloyd is acidentaly taken to the time stream alongside him and ends up in alternate Ninjago where Overlord rules and teams up with small resistance group led by Dareth.

Who is Overlord? What has he done?

In alternate timeline Overlord has possesed Kai on the field trip at the beggining of season 3 and made him Prisoner in his own body. Overlord killed Lloyd and tried to capture his spirit to absorb his golden power, but he was to late. In anger Overlord has used Kai’s powers on Pythor, burning out his scales and taking his arm. He estabilished dictatorship, leading his armies to massacre villages of people, building facilities where people are either tortured or turned into cyborgs under his control, also creating a microchips them made people Overlord’s slaves.

Overlord had Ninja’s put into torture facilities for 7 years (Jai getting Overlord’s special attention because he made machine that can free person from Overlord’s possesion), chiping Nya and miking her his second in command, with the chip specificaly desinged to make her aware of everything. Learning that Lloyd from alternate timeline came, Overlord has Pythor burned into a pile of ash.

Overlord sends Nya to capture Lloyd. It fails and Lloyd, comes to battle Overlord, with Garmadon following him and Jai tagging along. Garmadon is captured and tortured by Overlord as he forces Cyborg Wu to watch. Garmadon losses his arms, but is freed by Moth Man (more on that later). Ninja and allies go to school Ninja teached at in order to rebuild Jai’s device. Overlord faces them, but is beaten and captured. Device works and Kai is saved as heroes prepare to take on what remained of Overlord’s army.

Mitigating factors?

One caveat, in this alternate timeline Overlord didn’t got to absorb Lloyd golden powers. Not that he was incapable, simply that green ninja died before he could and he decide it is best to just get rid of alternate Lloyd.

I remember it being a important argument for canon Overlord having an agency, still it is made clear in Fanfic that he is capable of doing it and simply never got a chance.

He also has one comedic moment as he dosen’t know how to operate Jai’s machine, but is othervise played dead serious.

Heinousness?

So remember me mentioning moth man. In this fanfic there are godlike being that watch over realms and play tricks on their inhabitants, entire timeline was created by Moth Man’s wife in order to convice elders of their race to destroy Ninjago and bring her husband back from his banishment. There is also Moth Man’s evel brother, but he dosen’t really do anything.

Nonetheles they are godlike beings way more powerful than Overlord. Overlord has Ninjago conquered, with us seeing village massacred as aftermath of his army visiting it, has public torture centres and Cyborg turning factories (while we only see Ninja and Garmadon being subjected to it, fic portays it as painfull and nightmaris, Jai’ being reduced insane from torture and Garmadon clearly in pain as Overlord uses Cyborg turning machine to torture him), what he does to Kai and Nya is portayed as And I Must Scream, with both of them being aware of what they are forced to do.

Conclusion?

Assumin there is enought for him having an agency like in show, yes.

Purgatoryisof2 Since: Aug, 2022
#12582: Apr 27th 2023 at 4:27:05 AM

Considering the show one has it, I don't see an issue, and given he tried to absorb Lloyd's powers anyway, that also strengthens the fact he has agency. [tup] to Timelines!Overlord.

Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Apr 27th 2023 at 7:27:19 AM

crankers Since: Mar, 2014
#12583: Apr 27th 2023 at 5:32:32 AM

Yeah, I remember Muramasa: The Demon Blade. [tdown] to Wanyuudo. We were cutting it close with the PARANORMASIGHT: The Seven Mysteries of Honjo candidates, and whether or not they count as Offscreen Villainy. Wanyuudo is far worse. He has no character, dialogue or anything

This is all the so-called build up we get for him.

Courtesan’s Spirit (Asagiri): ...How horrible... How awful... Could you spare a moment to talk? Every evening, a demon known as Wanyuudo has been stealing away the should of poor whores who have died in this place. I know that I, too, will be taken away sooner or later.
Rankai: I've been expecting you, Jinkuro. Here in Yoshiwara, women are bought and sold as as matter of course. Their souls are also valuable commodities. You think I am lying to you? Perhaps you should hold off on slaying me until you've spoken to the haggard old...man...who owns the bordello here.
Kongiku: Do not turn around, master. (referring to Jinkuro) The overwhelming stench of evil... One of the demons that I mentioned earlier is lurking behind us even now. Rumor says that anyone unfortunate enough to look upon is is torn asunder. So if you don't look at it, you'll be safe. Please, do not turn around...

That's it. Right after that, Jinkuro decides to turn around anyway, sees it's not an old man, says to give back the soul, then kills the stupid wheel in the boss fight. Asagiri thanks you for freeing the souls. The end. Wanyuudo doesn't say anything, doesn't really do anything other then be a boss fight and it's not even told if he is the one who killed the prostitutes or Asagiri. Everything else is offscreen and window dressing.

You can see for yourself here from 34:18 to 36:40.

There just isn't enough. Not even close.

Edited by crankers on Jul 30th 2023 at 9:32:40 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#12584: Apr 27th 2023 at 5:39:10 AM

Wow Thats it.

It doesn't even look like we get an exact number of times he'd done this.

[tdown]Wanyuudo

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#12585: Apr 27th 2023 at 5:52:32 AM

[tup] Tokugawa Tsunayoshi and Inugami, Ustad, Fanroq, Overlord.

[tdown] To Wanyuudo

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#12589: Apr 27th 2023 at 6:40:41 AM

  • Nine Dead: Coogan shows himself to be the worst of the nine captives. A self-admitted child molester and serial killer whose "travels" have taken him all over the country, he does a bit in San Quentin for grand theft auto since the authorities couldn't find the bodies he disposed of. Having infected the Shooter's son with HIV by raping him in prison, Coogan is a remorseless piece of work who disgusts every other person in the room, even otherwise hardened criminals like Sully and Leon.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
ShootingStar7X Is semi-retired! Since: Dec, 2017
Is semi-retired!
#12590: Apr 27th 2023 at 6:56:59 AM

[tup] to Forrest Blackwell. We have several Ninjago candidates up already, so it's not like funny LEGO man couldn't count.

Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
BillyPeepers92 Since: Jun, 2021
#12591: Apr 27th 2023 at 7:33:38 AM

[tup] to Forest, Cain, Tokugawa and Inugami, Ustad, Farooq, Overlord.

[tdown] to Wanyuudo

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#12592: Apr 27th 2023 at 7:34:52 AM

[tup]Ustad Jaelani

[tup]Farooq

Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 27th 2023 at 9:35:12 AM

Watch me destroying my country
coolmaneditor Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#12594: Apr 27th 2023 at 8:04:49 AM

[tup] to Farouq and Overlord

[tdown] to Wanyuudo

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12596: Apr 27th 2023 at 8:17:40 AM

Also, lemme ping ~The Mad Cr0w

Do we wanna launch the Slender page with Monday's swaps?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#12597: Apr 27th 2023 at 9:06:02 AM

  • Phantasmagoria: The demon, an entity so evil that it has no name, is a being from the Dark Realm that haunts the Carnovasch estate. Summoned by magician Zoltan "Carno" Carnovasch during his time in Paris, the demon possessed Carno, turning him into a raging misogynist who would go on to kill his baby daughter Sofia and his multiple wives in a variety of painful ways. Murdering his assistant and his final wife after they tried to kill him, the demon was sealed away after Carno’s own demise. Accidentally reawakened a century later by Adrienne Delany, the demon goes on to possess her husband Don Gordon, using him to murder a phone repairman and two farmers, even going so far as to rape Adrienne for no reason while planning to decapitate her.

It's Spooky Month!
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#12598: Apr 27th 2023 at 12:15:42 PM

Yes to the Overlord

To Catch a Killer isn't around playing around me and probably won't get a chance to see it in time, so dropping that reservation.

[down] May 30th would be the earliest you could reserve it if June 30th is the release date; We're allowed to reserve stuff one month out from release.

Edited by Ravok on Apr 27th 2023 at 12:23:48 PM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
TheWrongOne41 The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they) from Somewhere, Mexico Since: May, 2022 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
#12599: Apr 27th 2023 at 12:21:41 PM

Hey, can i reserve Master Detective Archives: Rain Code? Comes out June 30th.

Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Apr 27th 2023 at 12:22:31 PM

Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#12600: Apr 27th 2023 at 12:50:48 PM

[up]I did say I would reverse the game right now.

Edited by Echidna on Apr 27th 2023 at 3:51:24 PM


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