Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
- Wendell & Wild: Lane and Irmgard Klaxon are the devious CEOs of Klax Corp. Already mass-murderers before the film even begins, the Klaxons burned down a brewery full of innocent people in order to bankrupt the town of Rust Bank, prefacing their plans to demolish the abandoned town and replace it with a private prison system. When the one living witness to their plan suggests he might talk out, the Klaxons immediately brain him with a golf club and toss him in a pond to drown. The Klaxons seek to make a profit by deliberately destroying the futures of hundreds of children, setting them up to fail in a crooked education system to ensure they inevitably end up in the private prison. The Klaxons are portrayed with fewer humanizing qualities than literal soul-torturing demons, ordering their own daughter killed and even turning on each other when their plans go south.
Ok then, here we go I guess. Hi everyone. So this is gonna be the first CM writeup I have created for this site and I am hoping for everyone's thoughts on my work after this is published.
What’s The Work?
The Evil Within is a video game that was released in 2014 with the second game being released in 2017. It follows Sebastian after learning that his daughter isn't really dead but rather in a simulation on MOBIUS he decides to go investigate while also saving his daughter from the danger he will be encountering.Who Is He? What Has He Done?
The Administrator is the head of MORBIUS and he decides to replace Ruvik for Leslie Withers. Due to Ruvik before too aggressive, he decides to send someone else to their assignment. He then hired Ruvik to build the STEM system turning his brain into a living core making him responsible for his villainy and then encountered him once again when Jimenez activated the STEM terminal Beacon from the mental hospital.He then decides to go find Leslie as he demanded loyalty to him before injecting her with a serum that would make her immune to Ruvik's influences. After Kidman defeats Ruvik he appears once again demanding she extracts Leslie but when she refuses to do his request he decides to keep on attacking him until Kidman manages to defeat him. He appears again revealing she was just being used as a test subject for him as a new method to infused control outlining she is only meant to display her loyalty to fear rather than anything.
He appears for the final time when Kidman failed her mission of acquiring Leslie leading to her breaking out of his influence and control before fighting The Administrator. After his defeat, he said he will always be a part of her before getting shot.
He then appeared when Sebastian decides to go search for his daughter who has gone missing as Mobius faked her death before deciding he will save her. The Administrator then explains that Lily is being used as the core for the STEM program but Mobius lost contact with her leading to them both not having control of STEM and having Sebastian save Lily.
When the core get's removed he orders his men to kill Sebastian outliving his usefulness before having Leslie killed as well as taunting that she will forget Sebastian or die. He then activated the chip all the MOBIUS employees have inside their heads leading to dozens of them being killed except Leslie who revealed she removed it three days ago leaving him furious. In the end, Myra takes down MORBIUS and The Administrator gruesomely by having all their chips activated killing them.
Mitigating Factors
I really can't find anything redeeming about this dude. He doesn't really seem fazed when his men get killed by Kidman or anyone for that matter, especially inside the STEM simulation. If anyone is wondering he has zero care towards Kidman since it is implied predominantly tormented her in STEM and that serum was so she could maintain her loyalty toward Mobius which was all revealed in the audio log of course. Overall he just appears as a cold-blooded character in general with nothing positive in general.Heinousness
Here is where I might need to explain a lot. I believe The Evil Within standards are either middle or not since The Administrator is the leader of MOBIUS and honestly, despite his screen time, I think he maybe makes it with the crimes I am about to mention. In the first game, he is revealed that he used Kidman as a test subject's new method to infuse control outlining she is only meant to display her loyalty out of fear rather than anything and it doesn't help the fact he tried to kill her twice. One is where he is doing the chase scene and one is when he tries to kill her with the chip and as you may figure out they are both brutal deaths.He is also the one responsible for making Ruvik turn to villainy by making his brain into a living core to STEM before ordering Kidman to retrieve Leslie so he can replace Ruvik inside of STEM and use it for an unknown purpose and whatever that plan is it's not gonna be pretty.
In the second game, he made Sebastian's daughter into a living battery for the STEM program and even faked her death until now. He even had Sebastian killed when he outlived his usefulness and to try and get his daughter out of the program before activating the chip on all of his employees killing dozen of them brutally without even phasing except Kidman due to removing it way before the game started. He even promised her the punishment is "legendary" so I think that should be noted as well.
So with that being said I think he may have a chance to pass the standard with Stefano Valentini in the series.
Final Verdict
I'll leave it up to you all but for me, I am just gonna see where this goes for now since I am in the middle for him. But as I said I do like to hear your thoughts right now when it comes to this thread.Edited by Echidna on Jan 21st 2023 at 3:57:47 PM
Hmmm... Abstain on The Admin until I get a better grasp upon the heinous standard. I will say that it sounds like he has a fair bit of resources, so he may have that as a concern...
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"Thinking it through I feel I'll have to change to a no on Fontaine, though it was a good re-evaluation Beast and he could well still be passing.
Going to have to think on the Administrator as well. He's nasty but Ruvik goes off on his own IIRC and the former can't be held responsible like Ruv is following his plan to the letter; Stefano from the second game also ratchets up the standard quite a bit. I'm not helped by the only part of the character I really recall is his hallucinated boss fight.
Regarding Marlon, while it wasn't his intent to cause collateral damage while driving away from the cops, it was his intent to arrange a teenager to be raped and film it, along with establishing a patten of having done that to other women and film it and that's what allowed Marlon to keep.
Don't get me wrong Beast I'm glad that you tried to re-evaluate Fontaine (Hell I myself tried to re-evaluate Cesare Borgia for this trope to no avail) and I do want him to up since he does have no redeeming qualities while having the sociopathic personality for the trope, but the problem is that Fontaine has to compete in the heinous standard with the likes of Marlon (a serial snuff film who arranges women to get sexually violated) and Garret Mason (a Serial Killer who intentionally kills and mutilates innocent women and frames men for his atrocities) both have less screen time and resources than Fontaine and If Fontaine knew that there were still innocent families inside but let Ira burn down the houses with them inside them anyway then he'd definitely have a better chance rather than learning that there where still families inside the houses after the fact, even if he doesn't care about their deaths other than how it may affect him. So with that I think I'll switch to an abstain for Fontaine since he could go either way.
As for the Administrator I think I can give him a tentative
for the moment.
I’m aware that he did try selling morphine to addicts and intentionally murdered Courtney Sheldon and attempted to kill Elsa but that those two murders/attempted Murders doesn’t really breach the heinous standard. I guess you can make a case that Fontaine was selling hardcore drugs to addicts which led to their deaths via drug overdose which could make him stand out I guess, but it is tough which is why I’m abstaining
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 20th 2023 at 9:15:12 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffI'll also give a tentative
for the Administrator unless something else comes up.
As for Echidna, I know they got up the MB candidate from Re:Zero about a year ago, so hopefully things can be as fruitful for them here.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Here's my 2nd FAITH candidate
What's the work?
FAITH: The Unholy Trinity is an excellent trilogy of pixelated horror games. They follow priest John Ward as he gets wrapped up in the machinations of a satanic cult called The Eternal Order of the Second Death which worships my candidate, The UNSPEAKABLE.
Who is the UNSPEAKABLE and what does it do?
Described by Gary (the cult's leader) as the Antichrist the UNSPEAKABLE is the greatest of all demons and the being worshiped by the cult. The cult’s ultimate goal is the summon forth the UNSPEAKABLE and as part of their rituals they commit infanticide, human sacrifice, and other horrible things. A year before the events of the games the cult’s leader, Gary, tried to summon the UNSPEAKABLE through a girl named Amy Martin. Amy’s parents brought two priests, John Ward and Father Allred to exorcize the UNSPEAKABLE from Amy but this resulted in the demon gruesomely killing Allred and her parents, causing John to flee. A year later John returned and did battle with the possessed Amy and eventually locked her in his basement. At the end of the third game Gary tries to use John as a new vessel for the UNSPEAKABLE and depending on the ending, either flees to try again later, is defeated and dragged to hell by UNSPEAKABLE for his failure, or succeeds when John refuses to confront Gary and brings forth Hell on Earth and the UNSPEAKABLE deems John’s actions “unforgivable” and drags him into a realm of eternal torment.
Is it bad enough?
It’s the absolute worst character in the setting, being responsible for all the horrific actions of the cult long before Gary was even born, horrifically possessed a girl and used her to kill three people, and its summoning causes Hell on Earth. If Gary is right about it being the Antichrist then it’s also indirectly responsible for all of the horrid things other demons do in the series, including an incident where a child was twisted into a cannibalistic monster, and the numerous cultists killed by other demons they summoned.
Mitigating Factors?
None, its dialogue while controlling Amy gives it a sadistic mocking personality, using the death of John’s mother to insult him and calling his crucifix a “little stick.”
Conclusion?
Yes from me
Regarding Avatar: The Way of Water: I'm honestly a
downvote on the Space Whaler—actual name Mick Scoresby. While he's certainly a piece of shit, he didn't strike me as being significantly worse than anybody else working for RDA. The fundamental problem is that the RDA just doesn't see any native life on Pandora as having civil rights: frankly I wouldn't have been surprised at them trophy-hunting the Na'vi themselves if they thought they could profit from it and if the Na'vi were less accomplished at fighting back. Do recall Quaritch taking flamethrowers and napalm shells to Na'vi villages in both films.
Edited by StarSword on Jan 20th 2023 at 10:18:10 AM
Trust me, I'm an engineer!Oh yeah btw. One thing before I go. For Sabertooth from the comics, Under Moral Event Horizon
where it says this: "The big one for Sabretooth was when Tieri wrote him raiding a daycare center and casually eating the terrified children as snack food."
I've read all the Tieri comics I can find, it's even talked about on Reddit and CBR, and I can't find this scene for the life of me. I even asked the Marvel Database and they don't know either. So if anyone can find where this scene comes from, I'd greatly appreciate it right now.
Edited by Echidna on Jan 20th 2023 at 10:32:34 AM
Yes to the Unspeakable
Scoresby isn't under discussion yet so I'd say save any preliminary votes, but lemme just say that I'm very firmly in the camp he counts where the franchise is atm and will happily debate on him when....Lighty (?) does the effortpost.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
There hasn't been a formal EP made yet but Miraculous mentioned him a few pages ago and there was some discussion.
Let us wait until Scoresby is properly posted before we vote on him
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
to the UNSPEAKABLE as well.
Fun fact- this actually takes place in the same universe as DUSK, so Nyarla and this thing co-exist. Come to think of it, we might have to move the entries for both games into a new tree for the New Blood universe.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

Didn't we decide to remove the whole 'needs to be different' rule? If so I think novel Ares can stay.
Bow to the Prototype