Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
My other now...
What's the work?
Black Mask is a 1996 film starring Jet Li as Tsui Chik. Or "Michael" in the dub. He's a mild mannered Librarian with a secret: he's a superhero. Original part of the Unit 701 project, the military injected people with a super soldier serum that made them super strong and durable. The project went wrong and the soldiers were ordered terminated. Tsui Chik tried to save others, but the unit was gone...
And then some resurface, led by this man...Commander Hung
Who is Hung?
A man who decides his new purpose is to dominate the underworld. Hung was Tsui Chik's mentor and the former leader of Unit 701. Like an evil, Chinese Roy Batty, Hung has learned an unfortunate truth: the same experiments that gave them super powers also resulted int he group having drastically shortened lifespans and he desires an antidote that the government possesses....
He also, unfortunately, wants to completely dominate the underworld and sets about on a brutal killing spree to do so. Tons of cops and criminals are massacred as Hung takes his place along the underworld and to also obtain files of China's top secrets for law and order...
And it gets bad. One drug dealer who refused to cooperate shows the cops the legs of his daughter Hung sent to him. Another man has a bomb implanted in his chest so that the cops can't tell wires from arteries, which blows up a chunk of the hospital. Another mook is sent in to massacre a hospital.
Tsui Chik fights back, to the disgust of Hung who tells him he's supposed to be superior and takes Cailyn, Tsui Chik's old lover, and tells her to kill him.
Ultimately, he reveals he intends to get the antidote and return the stolen files...after he gives them to China's enemies and criminals all over the world. Tsui Chik ultimately faces his former mentor and brings him down with a razor disc in the throat, before killing him by blowing up the lab.
Mitigating issues?
So, I did struggle on this. Hung is an elitist who fancies himself well above humans. He shows no love for his old student and sneeringly offers him one chance before stating failure means that Tsui Chik has to die and "I gave you a chance." He talks a lot about "we" for his followers but he shows zero warmth to them and absolutely doesn't react remotely when any of them die.
Conclusion?
Keep, I believe.
next up...will be a tribute to a wonderful actor who is sadly no longer with us
Edited by Lightysnake on Apr 22nd 2023 at 5:53:24 AM
Yes to Dran, Albert, Sy, and Hung. I'm okay with a The Slender Man Mythos page.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadHere is my write-up for Hiiragi. It's my first one so feedback would be appreciated.
Etra chan saw it!:This
version of Hiiragi is seen as both a "perfect" guy and Kuroki's Best Friend, but in reality this is just a mask to hide his true self. A notorious bully in middle school, he either ordered or personally participated in bullying so severe that several students dropped out and one received a burn so severe it damaged his eye. Acting like an angel in front of the teachers to avoid any punishment he became feared by the rest of the students. Becoming a better actor in high school he still started dating Yuzuriha solely to get a reaction out of Kuroki, being upset when the boy he was pretending to be friends with acted as if it didn't bother him. Learning Yuzuriha inherited a large sum of money from her parents he proposed to her to take her money. When she saw through this and refused he would rape her and force her to marry him, abusing and treating her like a slave for five years before his death. A horrible person who was not mourned by those who knew his true self, to the point they saw his death as karma, his actions continue to haunt his "best friend" and widow months after his death.
Going to add this on the Etra-Chan page in an hour.
Edited by Dark-Triad on Apr 22nd 2023 at 6:08:09 AM
Tournament Arcs are the best Arcs.
Sy and Hung
HABIT murders a main character from MLAnderson0 and meets Noah Maxwell; Evan—HABIT's host—gives directions to the protagonists of TJA Projects; Mary Asher is a member of Novus Ordo Europa; Stan Frederick knows about HABIT and refuses to collaborate with him; Lee had an encounter with Noah and met Story Parker... I don't see how the connections are "vague".
How...? HABIT literally plays a pivotal role in Tribetwelve and murders the deuteragonist of MLAndersen0. I'm pretty sure that's a Shared Universe.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 22nd 2023 at 10:15:27 AM
Yes to Sy and Hung.
I've got one more to sneak in myself before a concert; from the Italian poliziottesco genre, which amazingly I've never had a candidate from until now (anyone who's been here long enough might remember my fancy for Spaghetti Westerns and peplum movies). But even for this genre he's nasty; an Italian critic called this guy, and I quote from the Wikipedia page, "perhaps the most gruesome and ruthless villain of the Italian crime cinema."
From 1977's Stunt Squad...
- The biggest, baddest racketeer and kingpin in all of Bologna. Valli is a career criminal who, for a year, has held Bologna in a grip of terror thanks to his brutal crime wave. People all over the city pay to Valli as "protection"; if they don't, Valli destroys them and everything they hold dear.
- Specifically, he likes bombs. A lot. And killing lots of innocent people with this. His very first scene, Valli blows up an entire diner and everyone in it, chuckling and savoring his handiwork as he walks by the maimed corpse of an old lady. The next scene, another bomb blows up a clothing store, killing even more people. We soon learn that this is part of a pattern for him (complete with a slideshow of his previous bombings). Valli has derailed trains; blown up factories and supermarkets; killed dozens of people, one crime to the next, with aftermaths so bad they're described as looking like something out of a war zone. Dozens of cops, likewise (exactly forty) have been killed by Valli's gang during their reign of terror, too.
- Valli goes onto to kill lots more people during his run, by proxy or personally. When a burnt survivor of the diner bombing just barely survives to identify him, Valli has him killed in the hospital. When he sees a cop who recognises him in public, Valli shoots him dead in front of everyone—and as a cherry on top, kills another innocent woman by running her over in the ensuing getaway. He doesn't even look back. Valli later disposes of another cop with a rigged bomb, resulting in the man's prolonged death.
- Valli's no less ruthless to his own allies. When a pimp under his thumb squeals to the police, Valli's punishment is exceptionally cruel; he murders the pimp's friend in front of him (specifically, he tricks the pimp into running him over) and then proceeds to have the pimp castrated, alive and screaming, by his men. Only post-castration does Valli finally finish the man off with a machine gun. One of Valli's allies later whips him up a fake passport to get out of Bologna; Valli thanks him by shooting him dead.
- In the climax, trying to flee the city and lay low for a while, Valli ends up spotted by a detective on public transit. Valli murders the detective—and, his cover blown, promptly takes everyone on the bus hostage, threatening to massacre them all. Valli's only stopped from killing anymore innocent people by a cop who gets a lucky shot from the window. When that cop tries to take Valli in, over a hundred people converge on him and beat him to death in one of the most exaggerated forms of mob justice I've ever seen.
- Blows it out of the water. Even for the poliziottesco genre, which thrived on the presence of brutal, evil villains to justify theirDirty Harry-esque protagonists, Valli is hysterically bad. Not one scene goes by where he isn't murdering an innocent or trying to; the film throws in stuff like him running over an innocent as a tangential afterthought to his general rapsheet of massacres and torture.
- None. The closest you can really say is that he has a girlfriend, who he treats marginally better than the rest of the gang (i.e. he doesn't murder her) but even then, he's not attached enough to bring her with him during his escape, leaving her behind instead. This isn't played as "I'm leaving you behind for your own protection"—Valli is never shown to give a shit about anything but his own neck. This is more "I'm skipping town and I don't really care what happens to you."
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 22nd 2023 at 7:21:40 AM
Sy.
Hung.
Valli.
The page discussion should really be on the cleanup thread, but to asnswer Lord, not all of these are cameos; quite a few of them are full crossovers. Hell, a few of these cameos end up benign plot revenant to their respective stories.
Edited by Beast on Apr 22nd 2023 at 6:13:23 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Popping in to give a hearty
to Emperor Belos and Odalia Blight. Between The Owl House and Amphibia, Disney put out some dark stuff in the last few years, even by their standards.
Yeah. Odalia is too aware of what The Day of Unity is actually supposed to do to not have willing aid to genocide on her rapsheet.
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"I'm also going to give a
to Odalia. Yes, she's an unpleasant abusive parent, but ultimately she's small potatoes in comparison to Belos. Plus, the other Coven Heads were also complicit in Belos' plans and heavily hinted to be aware of what the Day of Unity truly entails as well. Odalia is just another cog in the machine as far I'm concerned. Not complete monster material.
I made it clear that comparing Belos and Odalia is a moot point. We allow villains with different niches after all. She is someone who directly supplies Belos with the Abomatons, but she is also a nasty abuser to her husband and kids which trumps the coven heads who lack that personal nastiness.
And again, we have had CMs already with humiliating defeats that do not undercut them if they were played seriously prior. You have the right to downvote, but several of those points were noted in the EP.
The thing is, despite what the page claims, the coven heads did not know what they were getting into with Terra even being horrified that she was going to die than achieve "lower royalty."
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 22nd 2023 at 6:59:10 AM

Yes to Sy