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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#10252: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:06:13 PM

At least. Something you should mention is how he was temporarily rendered catatonic by Mammoth Mogul shielding himself from the Egg Grapes using his body: But that says more about how cunning and dangerous Mogul is, especially since Naugus recovers and gets away with his future crimes.

Get Snuck-Up On.”
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#10254: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:07:47 PM

Ok. Speaking of Mogul, could he be CM?

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Fireball246 Since: Jan, 2023
#10256: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:09:34 PM

Can we please stop asking about Archie Sonic villains counting or not? This is a CM Proposal thread not an Archie Sonic CM thread.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#10257: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:09:35 PM

Please take this to PM - all this talk of hypotheticals has been taking up to my thread space for hours. If you want to make a proposal than do it but hypothetical questions aren’t going to provide concrete answers

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#10258: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:10:33 PM

Is it the thing where he decided he was just going to wait until Sonic died because he realized he couldn’t beat him?

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#10261: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:11:33 PM

Okay, to break up discussion—I know I got the dude from Kamen Rider: Black Sun coming up but I had this on my sandbox.

And yes, please take any further Sonic questions to PM. That means stop posting about it in the thread unless you have an EP.

From the first few episodes of Justice League!

    What has the Imperium done? 
  • Leader of the race of nebulous alien invaders who serve as the villains of the three-part series pilot, "Secret Origins," the Imperium is the one established to be the one behind the genocide of the Green Martians. J'onn, Martian Manhunter, explains that the Green Martians—a peaceful and pacifistic people—were brutally subjugated by the Imperium's forces. We see, in flashbacks, the fiery genocide of J'onn's entire people and the entire planet cleansed of life; J'onn only stopped them temporarily when he sealed the Imperium and its forces in a stasis field for 500 years.
  • Only for humanity to bungle things like usual. An astronaut accidentally breaks the Imperium and its race out of their seal; the Imperium promptly has its dragon Kill and Replace the astronaut, then has him return to Earth and begin an insidious campaign to disable their nuclear defenses. It works; Earth is left helpless and the Imperium swoops in, having its invaders attack cities all over the world and put countless lives at risk.
  • The Imperium's endgame is to repeat what it did on Mars; destroy all humanity, then enshroud the planet in eternal darkness so it can rule (the Imperium and its race are fatally allergic to sunlight). When the Imperium finally comes down to Earth in the third episode, it gleefully subjects J'onzz to Electric Torture and tries to kill him in this fashion, gloating about how through this it will finally eradicate the last Martian and complete its genocide. When the League fights back and break out of their captivity, the Imperium immediately retreats back to its mothership, leaving all of its men on the ground to die in the sunlight in the process. When its dragon desperately tries to hitch a ride, the Imperium kicks him into the sunlight, resulting in him horribly dying. It's no use; Hawk Girl smashes the mothership as it tries to escape, blowing it up with the Imperium in it.
    Heinous standard? 
  • Back when the Imperium was first brought up and downvoted, this was one of two sticking points against him; that it wasn't heinous enough for its tier. And I grant that skepticism. Darkseid and Brainiac each destroy/seek to destroy the entire universe, and other villains—qualifiers and non-qualifiers alike—have tried to destroy Earth. Hro Talak; Granny Goodness; Icthultu; Orm; so on.
  • Where I think the Imperium gains an edge, and this is a point I really don't think people focused on enough in the initial discussion, is the fact that it's already responsible for a planetary genocide, one that's quite vividly depicted in flashbacks. He doesn't just try and destroy Earth; he's repeating the process he already visited on another species. That gives him an edge over many other more minor villains; characters like, say, the godly Eldritch Abomination Icthultu (who tries to swarm Earth with monsters and convinced Thanagar to human sacrifice in the past, but nothing ever indicates it has a body count remotely similar to the Imperium's) who I've seen the Imperium directly compared to.
  • The scale the Imperium acts on is honestly more comparable to Mongul, who threatens multiple planets, and he qualified fine. I'm not gonna try and measure the Imperium up to Darkseid or Brainiac since those two are big bads with multiple appearances over entire series and years. The Imperium had about three episodes to do damage—only one it directly appears in—and I think it makes its mark even in the DCAU.
    Redeeming qualities? 
  • So again, one sticking point in the old discussion was that the Imperium may not have been characterized enough, and that I think I can argue firmly against. The Imperium's not rich with character, no, but it's sadistic enough to try and deliberate torture one of the heroes to death (while gloating about destroying his entire race, no less) and furthermore it's a cowardly fuck who would sooner abandon its entire army to die in the sun rather than die itself. It's not an interesting character by any means, but it clears this mark.

Edited by Scraggle on Apr 5th 2023 at 7:13:21 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#10262: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:12:42 PM

[tup]The Imperium

It's Spooky Month!
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#10263: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:13:19 PM

What is PM and how do I access it?

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Apr 5th 2023 at 6:13:41 AM

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
AgentofChaos41 Introduce a little anarchy from Chaos... duh Since: Dec, 2022
Introduce a little anarchy
#10267: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:19:53 PM

[tup] to the Imperium.

~~Agentof Chaosreporting~~
AlicornGaia Fishy from Mega Man Zero Earth Since: Sep, 2019 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Fishy
#10268: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:20:23 PM

[tup]To the Imperium

"Come on Zero. Fight me. It feels so good :3"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#10269: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:24:17 PM

Sure to the Imperium. I'll admit, the fact that it needs darkness makes me wary, but it seems more sadistic than necessary.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#10270: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:25:36 PM

Big Yes to the Imperium, good work

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#10271: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:34:24 PM

[tup] Imperium

You know, I feel that we should make a separate thread at Yack Fest for irrelevant CM/MB discussion like that Sonic thing as Twiddler discussed here. Also put in a rule at Administrivia or the pinned message that such discussion should go to that Yack Fest thread. Are you in agreement with this suggestion?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#10272: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:45:23 PM

Agnostic on creating the Yack Fest thread, I'm just heavily in support of not hosting discussions at length about if characters may or may not count. Yes to Imperium and thanks for getting us back on track!

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#10274: Apr 5th 2023 at 6:52:46 PM

[tup]Imperium. Don't think heinousness is an issue when, barring Darkseid and Brainiac, he seems to have a higher explicit bodycount than the other JL villains listed.

Why so serious?

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