Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Yes to Evolution's End and Ranta.
So, question to who has Helluva Boss reserved. It's been two weeks since Season 2 Episode 3, so I'm wondering if we want go ahead and discuss Moxxie's dad Crimson now or wait until the season is over since he's still alive and plotting revenge? I only ask since the show has no set release date so the season could take a year or more to finish up and I feel he easily qualifies from his introductory episode alone.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Charles, Furnace, Snake, Puppet Master, Rita, Tokuga, Evan, Barrington, Nate, Alex, Baphomet, Edwards, Milo, Zavok, Macula, Afton, Starved, Massacre, Cale, Slagar, Richard, John, Fortitudo, Joey, Podesta, Palps, Howard, Rex, Thordak, Crazy Horse, Ghidorah, Franken, Ariel, Toyohime, Tarkin, Lynch, Blofeld, Gigan, Nennog, Entity, Missy, Brewer, Largo, Head, Strong, Byo-gen, Brokenclaw, Jain, Verger, Sirenhead, Harlan, Carnahan, Nobunaga, Twin, Zaw, Tetsu, Varner, Nihil, Doom, Puppetino, David, Gregory, Eye, Noelle, Daruizen, Falco, Chen, Tremblay, Gog, Bennecke, Lukash, Northa, Felix, Koslov, Brezhnev, Frog, Heruta, Lamb, Yu, Torak, Rios, Hugo, Evolution's End and Ranta
Slash, G'mork, Maluradek, Modja, Red, Trey, Wily, Giles and Vadim
I have the show reserved on MB and am waiting for Striker's arc to conclude there, but that's more for unanswered questions than anything else and Crimson's pretty straightforward so far so I'd hear him now.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Mar 24th 2023 at 11:26:35 AM
Ok calm down, you can only vote for certain profiles within their voting period
Anyways, currently trying to cook up a EP for Michinosuke Dounami from Kamen Rider BLACK SUN after Scraggle suggested it, everyone doesn't mind?
Eh, good enough.Wet: Yeah it really does (and their far from the only one to find some, fascinating series all around). There is one other potential keeper, but Lighty will be handling them at some point in the future.
Okay for the SWAT page, we've managed to find a few potential quotes, which do you think would be best (or none if you don't like any of them):
Hondo: Take it easy! Nobody else needs to die!
Zaw: I give all the kids a choice, you know, when I bring them in! Either they work, or they die! My nephew never had to make that choice! He was my blood!
Hondo: He still is!
Zaw: No, he's not anymore! He betrayed me!
So what do you think?
@MGD: Third quote is to my liking.
Hey guys.
I read a book. :D
100% Match is a...
...
...Okay, where do I start?
100% Match is an extreme horror dark comedy about a fast-food employee named Bart. He's an overweight, over-analytical thirty-year-old trying to find love in a small town in Mangle County, Texas. He is also a Spree Killer.
Who is He?
Bartholomew "Bart" Bartley is the Villain Protagonist of the book.
What Has He Done?
The book is told in first-person from an Unreliable Narrator, so I'm going to state precisely what he states, for the sake of argument. The book begins with Bart preparing and heading to work, recounting some incidents that happened in his past, such as when his mother drank too much home-brewed cyanide tea, allowing Bart to inherit her house. He walks to work at Jim's Burger Joint and clocks in, where he carries on with his shift, making multiple burgers and fries and casually "poisoning" the food with inedible items I will not specify because I assume the people in the forum like Burger King. Anyway, after his shift ends, he goes back home, going through his daily routine of relaxing, watching a documentary on TV, throwing a cat out of his yard and before going to bed, he shoots and kills the child he had chained in the basement.
Moving on, Bart recounts the time he went on a date with a woman named Debra. During the date, Debra asked him to tell a secret about himself. So Bart tells her he visited a person at a nursing home with a bag containing a cucumber, a bearded dragon, and a mallet. Debra was not pleased at what Bart did at the nursing home. The date ended badly. Two days later, Debra dies after spraying herself with hydrofluoric acid that somehow made its way into her perfume bottle. Very sad.
Anyway, the next day Bart has another work shift where he makes special burgers—again, will not provide details—before heading to the grocery store. While leaving, Bart picks up a woman's wallet after she drops it on the ground and hands it back to her. Back at home, Bart encounters the same cat again and takes it inside. Before bed, he cuts up the dead kid into chunks of meat and does "something" to the cat.
Bart recounts how he hit it off with someone via online dating, a woman who went by Wendy DarkPoet. Things were going along well until their first date in person, where Bart finds out Wendy lied about not having kids. In truth, she has five. Bart immediately leaves her without saying a word. Later that same night, Wendy, her five children, and three other residents would die after their apartment building burned down. Unfortunate.
Moving on, during his Saturday shift, after Bart "poisons" the restaurant's chili and lets all of his coworkers eat some, he runs into the same woman he met at the grocery store. She introduces herself as Sara and asks him to go on a date. After fumbling his words, he agrees, and the two have a nice date at a coffee shop on Sunday. During the drive home, Bart is pulled over by a police officer for a broken brake light. Bart panics when the officer prepares to run his driver's license since it's currently suspended. He lures her into checking inside his trunk, giving him enough time to bash her in the head with a crowbar and stuff her inside. He later shoots the officer to death after she tries to shoot her way out the trunk. Happy over his successful date, Bart celebrates by violating the cop's body, amongst other things.
Bart goes on his second date at Sara's house, and after drinking some tea she made, he feels very sleepy and suddenly passes out, noting that 43% of men report having a drink unknowingly spiked. He wakes up in a room, naked, tied a chair, and in front of a camera. It's not long before we find out that Sara is a Serial Killer who starts torturing Bart to death. As he dies, Bart notes that 0.000000006% of women in the Unites States make a living doing snuff films. Sara just so happens to be his perfect match.
His 100% match.
Heinous Standard?
Besides Sara, who's snuff film deeds are not expanded upon, the only criminal in the book is Bart himself. Now, Bart does not outright state he murdered Wendy and her family. Or Debra. Or his mother. Or his father. Or his grandfather. Or his infant baby brother, who died when Bart was twelve. But it's blatantly obvious he's not telling the reader what he did because this is just how this man functions. He objectively lets the reader know what he does in the moment whether the reader wants to hear it or not, such as when he shot a kid he had tied up in the basement, made “special” hamburger meat, or when he passed gas in front of the police officer after he was pulled over in a failed attempt to make her go away.
Pass.
Mitigating Factors?
...No?
Okay so...Bart is objectively a sociopath. He does not feel emotions properly. He will compliment people, say nice things about them, but then he'll suddenly do something terrible to that same person at the drop of a hat. Bart got along really well with Wendy, but the moment he found out she had kids, Bart immediately left the date and burned down her apartment later that night. For the sake of argument, I'm going to pluck out a piece of the story to show you what I mean.
This is Bart being nice. I'm not even gonna get into how Bart fed all of his coworkers his "special chili" later that weekend.
What's weird about Bart is that when he says and does all the horrible things he does, there's little hint of malice to it. It's like...he does it either because he can or simply because he does not care. He will murder a woman, nonchalantly reference what he did, and then go about his day and grab a cup of coffee right afterwards.
Are Bart's Actions Taken Seriously?
Yes, but they're told from the perspective of a sociopath who thinks brushing his teeth and murdering a cat go hand in hand. The actions within the context of the story are played seriously. However, the way the story is written makes it come off as a very, very vulgar dark comedy that crosses the line too many times to count. That being said, the sheer amount of depraved and disgusting things he does and somehow gets away with is frustrating. So when you get to the ending, you feel absolute catharsis because this man deserves what's coming to him.
Overall, this book is a less dramatic version of Zombie, and not exactly as explicit as that book either.
Final Verdict?
I will let you guys choose.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Mar 25th 2023 at 10:09:50 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Re: Helluva Boss. Admittedly, I do think Crimson would be fine to propose right now if he was taken seriously. That being said, I don't think the guy is-there's two scenes where he puts in enormous amount of dildos because he doesn't understand what gay people like (or that his son isn't gay) or because Chaz wanted the chairs filled, and arguably how Blitzø insults him about being played by Chaz like a country bumpkin.
Yes to Evolution's End, Hugo and Bart Simpson.
@ Purgatoryisof 2, regarding Helluva Boss, I don't think Crimson's crimes in the flashback are played for laughs, there is no almost no dialogue in the flashbacks. The music is meant to convey sadness and then horror in the flashbacks, not humor. If that is meant to be funny, I don't get the joke and most people who react to the flashbacks online don't seem to think they are funny. Sure Crimson's homophobia is played for laughs, but I think his crimes are played straight, there is a video with them on this very site:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoExamples/AbusiveParents
I think this is an example of humor to cut tension rather than Crimson being a purely comedic character. Helluva Boss often goes from comedy to drama in pretty short order.
The big issue I have is the heinous standard. In a normal setting, Crimson has more than enough, but this series is in Hell. The main characters are all hitmen and outside of Moxxie who does not like killing children or mothers, the others do not seem to care who they kill as long as they get paid. Now usually their victims are Ass Hole Victim types (a Satanist who kills people and has body parts lying around the house, a corrupt billionaire, government agents who want to experiment on Moxxie and Blitzo, Crimson's goons, etc), but in the pilot, they kill a kid and its played for laughs and in episode 3 the main characters kill a bunch of people on a beach for petty and ridiculous reasons.
Crimson is close to the line, but I am not sure he is over it.
I don't disagree that he's serious enough in the flashbacks. Still, the few moments where he is played for laughs do diminish how much of a threat the viewers see him as, at least in my eyes. Crimes aren't the only thing meant to be played seriously, the characters overall personality and presentation should also not be detracting in my eyes.
As for heinousness, I've got no issue. The biggest cluster of kills I.M.P. has is killing all the agents, who were in the way and mostly through quick means. Crimson drowns at least 25 people and mounts the remains of at least 55 others on his walls. I feel that's more than enough, especially since they've got no afterlife and he forced his son to drown one of them.
Anyway, to contribute something besides HB discussions,
to Yu Ji, Hugo, and Ranta. Leaning the same for Bart, but just to be clear, he didn't hold any actual romantic feelings for his last date, and only lust, right?
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Mar 25th 2023 at 10:58:56 AM
If a character's crimes are played seriously, that's all you need, IMO. Look at say BTAS Joker, he has some goofy moments, his pants fell down and everyone saw his boxer shorts after one particularly humiliating defeat, and one episode had Joker inherited a bunch of money from a rival gangster and engaged in goofy antics for most of that episode. None of that erases all the evil things BTAS Joker did that were played straight. Same deal with Crimson, his homophobia may be played for laughs but his abuse and cruelty are not.
I can't comment on Helluva Boss since I haven't seen any of it (yet). But I don't see the harm in an EP at least.
@Purgatoryisof2: No. Everything about Bart is nothing more than calculations to him. He's just trying to find his "perfect match"; he's not in it for the romance, and it's made clear he's just playing nice with Sara just to see if she is "the one." Every single other woman Bart has dated, he either dropped them the second the date went awry, or he killed them because the woman said or did something that inconvenienced him. At no point during Bart's final moments is Bart aroused by the torture he's put through, and he even tells Sara he wants to leave and go home, and that he doesn't think he deserves what's about to happen to him. Even his final line in the book where he says Sara is his perfect match, it comes across more like he's saying:
"After all this time, I finally found a woman who has a career making snuff films. She's the perfect one. It's too bad she's torturing me to death right now though. Shame."
I think this line here perfectly cements how he feels about relationships after his first date with Sara.
Bart, inwardly: 89% of women who ask for a second date with a man desire a long-term relationship. 72% of women who ask a man to come to their home are open to the possibility of sex.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Mar 25th 2023 at 11:15:36 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Okay then,
to Bart. Doesn't sound like he loves Sara, more than he likes the idea of himself being in a relationship or something.
Edit: Also,
to the Lamb now. I rewatched the video, and them manipulating someone who also was nearly sacrificed, before sacrificing them anyway, seems to be there to erase any shred of sympathy for the Lamb.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Mar 25th 2023 at 11:42:05 AM
Bartley.
I’m gonna suggest holding off on Helluva Boss EP's for now. Partially because of tonal concerns with how much gets Played for Laughs, but mainly because the guy in question was just introduced and the season is still ongoing.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

Ah fair enough
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!