Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
to Sargon, H. H Holmes, Bakuda, Aponi, Joseph Vegerov, Jax Asturias, Oswyn Puschinske, Simon Carver, Gray Boy, Red Locust, Mari, Lord Nemisis, Hro'Dtohz, Eliot Ludwig, the Raven Keeper, Miranda Spot, Philip Krauss, Ghetsis, Mot and Tammy Arcanus.
to Crossbones, Morvath (wish he could count but the competition sounds to steep) and the Ancient Spirits.
Tarish-Zi I'll give a yeah for scope and with one freed up (Thanks Lighty!) here's my next:
Edit: Whoops! This is from Die Neue These, a remake/new animated adaptation of Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Also yes to Ghetsis and the City of Heroes duo, no to the ancient spirits.
What's Braunschweig doing here?
The same asshole redesigned as a Fat Bastard to emphasize his self-centered nature, this take of the Duke like his original starts off staying on the sidelines, speaking ill of Reinhard even as the young commander wins scores of victories against the Free Planet Alliance while Braunschweig enjoys high society functions, doing all he can to groom his daughter for the throne and raise his standing in the Galactic Empire even further (Currently second only to Kaiser Friedrich IV).
Mostly just a bigoted, unpleasant nuisance, Braunschweig shows his true colors when Friedrich suddenly dies of a heart attack and his grandson, rather than Braunschweig's daughter, is named the next Kaiser. Enraged, Braunschweig launches a coup, signed at the Lippstadt forest alongside his rival-turned-begrudging ally Marquis Littenheim and countless others. After a failed Assassination Attempt on Reinhard, they take their forces to Geiersburg Fortress and prepare to do battle with the young Reinhard and his forces in the name of the Goldenbaum Dynasty that lets Braunschweig oppress and abuse commoners as he wishes.
Throughout the war he displays a massive ego and stunning lack of strategic knowledge, making ridiculous decisions and expending forces for his glory. Amongst these, he sends the politically inconvenient Littenheim away from the fortress, along with millions of their men, something that costs nearly all of their lives as the cowardly Littenheim fires on his own supply ships to clear an escape path and is eventually killed by a suicidal, abused soldier. Braunschweig also falls into Oberstein's trap when his captured admiral is released back to him, killing the man out of a paranoid belief he's turned traitor and pushes on with his absurd war.
The worst comes when his soldiers, raiding his own territories to supply their side, cause dissent on one of the planets in Branschweig's domain and they rise up in rebellion, killing his nephew presiding over the territory. Infuriated that commoners he "owns" would stand up against him and his family, Braunschweig orders the infamous Westerland Massacre, killing the three million people who live there, which Oberstein makes a point of filming and broadcasting to the rest of the Empire, ending support for the Goldenbaum Dynasty and causing mass defection and suicide amongst Braunschweig's ranks.
Fearing consequence, Braunschweig makes a hilarious attempt to convey to his aide Ansbach how he'll survive his war crimes by promising the hand of his daughter to Reinhard and acknowledging his victory... Ansbach points out the Duke has no hope of quelling Reinhard, who now seeks to stamp out the Goldenbaum supporters which Braunschweig publicly embodies the worst excesses of. In a cathartic show of his own cowardice, Braunschweig begs Ansbach to find a way to save him which his loyal but far more understanding of reality aide has the struggling Duke drink poisoned wine, having his body cut open by surgeons to stuff it with a weapon in a final attempt to kill Reinhard for his dead master.
A flashback adds even more though! After the disgraced Marquis Klopstock tries to kill Braunschweig and Kaiser Friedrich at a party, Braunschweig leads a campaign to kill Klopstock when he refuses to surrender. Encouraging his High Noble followers to Rape, Pillage, and Burn while ignoring the advice of his far more intelligent military commanders even after Klopstock commits suicide, Braunschweig winds up in confrontation with Mittermeyer after the latter kills a Noble for viciously cutting open the throat of a young woman in the Klopstock's family for swallowing a family heirloom when he tried to take it from her. This puts him into contention with Mittermeyer whom he wrathfully tries to execute until Reinhard manages to use his strings to save Mittermeyer and force Braunschweig to remain silent on the whole incident through arbitration.
Heinousness?
The Westerland Massacre alone would be enough along with the senseless mass murder of the Lippstadt Rebellion in general but Die Neue These adds more to his strike back against Klopstock, instilling a reign of terror on the entire planet within his domain. Galactic Heroes is fucking dark but he's the worst present day war criminal by far and this version has gotten even more mass murder attributable to him, even if there's no indication about poisoning one of Friedrich's mistresses to cause her to miscarry.
Mitigating factors?
I added an Adaptational Nice Guy entry for him since he does technically ask if his family's been led to safety following Reinhard closing in on Geiersburg but thinking this through it's not like his stage play version who cries at the death of his nephew.
In the scene when he learns of a family member's actual death, his reaction is that of a man angry something was taken from him. He snarls at Flegel for questioning his orders at one point and tries to throw his daughter as a prize to Reinhard to save his own skin. Ultimately nothing's played straight for love.
Verdict?
Somehow they made Braunschweig even worse here.
Edited by 43110 on Jan 19th 2023 at 1:46:18 PM
Zi, Braunschweig
Since Morvath doesn't seem to be cutting it with either abstains or
(damn you heinous standard lmao) just wanna double check that the 72 hour rule still applies here so I can only EP again once Trevor's writeup is done.
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 19th 2023 at 6:48:44 PM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
to Ghetsis, Zi and Braunschweig.
Here is my writeup.
- Metal Fight Beyblade:
- (Doji)
- Dr. Ziggurat is the CEO of Hades Inc. and the financial backer for the Dark Nebula. Running the prestigious HD Academy, he puts his students through the Arrangement System, improving their blading skills at the cost of their physical and mental wellbeing, and takes the most successful products into Team Star Breaker, which he leads as the American representatives for the world championship. When Gan Gan Galaxy wins the tournament, Ziggurat crashes the celebration to reveal he was collecting data on the bladers, using it to invent Spiral Force, and brainwashed Toby, Masamune and Zeo's friend, into Faust, the blader who would wield Twisted Tempo and generate it. Demonstrating the destructive potential of his energy source on innocent settlements, he then announces his wish to sell it to the highest bidder, and is revealed to have forced Julian to join him by ruining the Konzern family name. As he is confronted by the heroes, he boasts about his smarts and his plan's success, only for the generated Spiral Force to go into meltdown levels, leading him to realise he has failed and flee the scene, insisting the entire time that he is not to blame.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Jan 19th 2023 at 6:52:53 PM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.Also before I forget
to Miranda... Now excuse me while I go barf.
Uh-oh... I don't like the sound of that... And how much worse are we talking? Like, makes all four of my City of Heroes keepers look tame worse?
Yes to Miranda, Zi, and Braun.
In Miranda's write up, you used the pothole More Despicable Minion in comparison to Jax. I do think an overview of all the candidates once you're done is in order, particularly if you used a trope to specifically imply Miranda is worse than Jax.
I recall us having to do a purge on the Ruby and Nora stuff since it was getting an influx of candidates.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jan 19th 2023 at 11:46:29 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.![]()
Out of curiosity, why did we have to purge some of the candidates from that Fanfic? Is it because several out heinoused others or had more/less resources for similar crimes?
It’s not to say that Miranda is worse than him to the point that he doesn’t count, just (as Geode says) that she’s more outright hatable than he is. Don’t worry, I’ll be doing a full rundown of the candidates once I’m done with them - I’m only slightly concerned about two of them but I do ultimately think all nine of them keep side by side. I’m gonna do my third EP at some point tonight, then the last one tomorrow so we can just wrap it all up shortly.
A lot of them were deemed to not be heinous enough once they got reevaluated
That might depend on how the adaptation presents the character. If they are completely rewritten with a completely new backstory and personality it would probably be fine. But if it's something like a heavily Compressed Adaptation where the character is basically the same but the part that shows they have agency issues is either not shown for time or never got to the point where it showed it, but is very likely to still be true, that might be an issue. Basically the issue with Film!Olaf.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 19th 2023 at 12:09:37 PM

Solidifying
to Morvath. He just isn't vile enough for Elder Scrolls.
To Tarish-Zi however, who is.
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"