Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Yes to Hwang, Patoff, the killer, Gobby, Arcanette, and Harvey.
Just finished Season 13 of Ninjago for the third potential I was iffy on. Long story short, he wasn't as bad as I was hoping, but he's still worse than I remember. I won't get to him yet because he returns as a major antagonist in the latest season, but I'll definitely be getting to him soon, and he's a definite keeper.
- Season 9 (Hunted): The Iron Baron is the master of the Dragon Hunters, the current inhabitants of the Realm of Oni and Dragons. Leading an expedition into the Oni Lands years ago only to find the demons mysteriously gone, the Baron killed everyone in his party to keep this a secret, using the fear of the Oni to keep his followers in line. The Baron leads the hunters in subjugating the dragons, cruelly hunting and enslaving the sapient creatures for food, work, or entertainment in death matches. When the ninja are stranded in the realm, the Baron tries to use them to capture dragons, before relentlessly pursuing them and Faith for daring to betray him. Ultimately aiming to claim the Dragon Armor of the First Spinjitzu Master, the Baron intends to use it to control the Firstbourne, the "mother of all dragons" whose children he has been slaughtering for years, to secure his rule for all time.
Glad
to Arcanette and Harvey. One minor nitpick I should bring up for Harvey for the sake of his write up is that he was not the one who originally kidnapped the Darkling; that was Arcanette's right hand woman Petrichor. However, Harvey did brutally experiment on it to turn it into the Darkling, so no heinousness lost.
Crowner’s Hooked? someone said that on the SM Image thread.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 9th 2023 at 10:56:16 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”
to Osborne, Arcanette and Harvey. I was thinking about those exact two myself.
Though this series may be unsubtle with its villains, there were a couple I thought might just be subtle enough for MB.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Mar 10th 2023 at 10:07:56 AM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Barclay, John, Zhao, Governor, Girl, Ozai, Stu, Pharaoh 90, Harry, Wiseman, Holtzman, Keller, Linda, Duke, Kobel, Shinichi, Dora, Forrester, Lilly, Maurice, Mikhalych, Delbert, Queen, Whiro, Xenius, Baron, Lamb, Jixtus, Lyrengen, Wilson, other Ozai, Pazuzu, Baumann, Badrang, Xochtal, Rutgers, Doleman, Riddler, Craig, Natla, Vex, Wise Men, Melvin, Hwang, Patoff, Killer, Osborne, Arcanette and Harvey
Donatello, Mulgarath, Johness, Ahmed, Ali, Billy and Xavier
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
Question: Is there a maximum waiting period? Like, these three have been awaiting writeups for like half a week, and the tropers have been nowhere to be found:
- The Leapfrogged Console Wars: Kefka
(DecafGrub47393)
- Summer Memories: Notuboi & Kanadakai
(Hayuki)
- Super Dragon Ball Heroes: Mechakara
(Villainfan35817)
I think Scraggle said all of them were good. Arcanette, at least, seems bad enough even with the first game, while Harvey just seems vile.
Edited by ACW on Mar 10th 2023 at 10:18:26 AM
Gonna be very busy this upcoming Spring Break, so here are my Scanners writeups.
- Commander John Forrester is a cop who claims to be using scanners to clean up crime and establish a New Order for the people. Revealing himself to be a sociopath who wishes to turn his city into a Police State where everyone’s under the control of his scanner army, with himself as mayor, Forrester recruits scanners to join his cause and gets them addicted to Ephemerol 2 to remain by his side, with many dying from the drug’s effects. Having the chief of police killed in an attempt to claim his spot, Forrester later kills the mayor for knowing too much about his plan, then tries to kill David from behind after his plans have been revealed to the public.
- Dr. Baumann runs his clinic as a front to painfully experiment on scanners, regardless of age. Having performed cruel tests on the young Alex and Helena, Baumann’s tests traumatized the latter up to adulthood. Keeping photos of the tortured subjects under his care, Baumann’s treatment of scanners was so cruel that his patients agreed to band together to wipe out all of humanity.
- Craig Volkin was a psychopath who assisted his loving scanner brother Karl in his murder and rape spree. With a history of homicide, Craig helped Karl break into a home and murdered two people, saving a girl for last to be raped by him and Karl. Encountered by Sam Stazik, Craig holds the girl at knifepoint while threatening to kill her.
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
"Loving"? May want to add Sarcasm Mode to that, Karl was plenty awful in his own right.
(Edit: Thanks for clarifying, the wording just looked somewhat confusing to me.)
Edited by carduinal-cyn on Mar 10th 2023 at 9:48:39 AM
"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
Arcannete and Harvey (who seems to he a solid contender for "Pettiest villain ever" award)
He's indicating that Karl loves Craig and Sarcasm Mode certainly wouldn't go in a writeup.
Here is Jixtus. Mir should have another guy from trilogy eventually so I will put him into a tree.
- Thrawn Ascendancy:
- Jixtus is an agent of the mysterious Grysk Hegemony. Plotting the destruction of the Chiss Ascendancy, Jixtus manipulates Nikardun Destiny into a path of conquest. Jixtus has group of a telepathic Agbui cause a civil war on planet Sunrise, having survivors enslaved as planet is turned into a mining colony for nyex metal. Jixtus sends Agbui to infiltrate Chiss Ascendancy, using Nikardun conquests as a distraction. Following the defeat of the Nikardun, Jixtus massacres the inhabitants of two of their outposts and turns the outposts into shipyards. Jixtus helps Haplif of Agbui to the influential Chiss families into a battle that almost throws the Ascendancy into a civil war. Foiled once again, Jixtus allies with generalirius Nakirre, leader of the theocratic Kilji Illumine, setting him on the warpath across the sector, while Jixtus continues to manipulate the Chiss Ascendancy into a civil war. After Thrawn and his allies free Sunrise from Grysk occupation, Jixtus hears about the future seeing powers of the leader of the Sunrise, Magys, and schemes to take Magys and use her for the Grysk conquests. Jixtus is lured to Sunrise where, realising that the Kilji conquests have been foiled, he kills generalirius Nakirre. Jixtus assumes the command of his fleet to destroy Thrawn and his allies, spending his last moments before his death proclaiming to Thrawn that Grysk will eventually destroy them all.

FTR, even the Moonshade Order thinks Harvey is revolting.
Edited by magnum12 on Mar 9th 2023 at 9:15:16 AM