Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
The only thing I'm reading that sounds like it might push Mulgarath over is there's a line in the film where it's said that if he gets the book, "he'll destroy all the faeries", which does seem to imply a lot of death of he wins. But I haven't seen the movie in forever and don't recall how much weight that is given, hence my abstain.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
It's brought up different times by different characters, so it's given a fair amount of emphasis.
I personally think that while he could admittedly be worse, he still reaches the requisite heinousness bar to pass. I'll leave it at that for the time being.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 5th 2023 at 10:26:34 AM
I guess my major issue is that his book counterpart barely scrapped by last time we did this and he was much, much worse than this (he never even gets the book until a second before he's killed to do anything with it).
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Here's Badawi. Adding to the sandbox.
- Mushrat Badawi is an opportunistic war criminal out to rule the Basra Province. Already wanted by the UN for crimes against humanity during his time as a torturer for the Saddam Hussein regime, Badawi struck a deal with the ambitious Lieutenant Colonel John Garrett for arms to aid him in his conquest. Knowing the men under Garrett would be forced to turn a blind eye to his crimes, Badawi began to massacre the wives and children of suspected dissidents, killing 12 in front of Garrett’s horrified men and bringing the region under his full control. Continuing to be supplied with funding, Badawi kept murdering anyone opposed to him and routinely massacring civilian targets, succeeding in becoming head of the Basra Council and facing no justice for his crimes.
And as such, here is my other outstanding write up:
- Duty and Honour: Lieutenant Colonel John Garrett, despite presenting himself as a charming and protective leader, is truthfully a smug, smarmy silver-tongued weasel. When stabilising the situation in Northern Basra proved beyond his capabilities, Garrett enabled Badawi to rise to power by allowing him to terrorise the province into submission, all whilst forcing his men to turn a blind eye to the massacres, only caring about his career. Capitalising on his now glowing reputation, Garrett left the army to found APX Solutions, making himself very wealthy. Discovering his former solider Mark Bennet was going to expose him, Garrett decapitated him with a cavalry sabre; then later had Francis Duggan sniped to ensure he also couldn't talk, convincing the vulnerable Colonel Malham to kill himself so as to pin the murders on him; happy to betray or murder anyone to protect himself.
Any thoughts?
Yay! I finally found one that might work!
I feel like if Nehelenia had no redeeming qualities or Tragic Villain qualities in the 90’s Anime, this would’ve been a lot easier. She’d Kick the Dog, Physically Attack the heroes and blast them every chance she got.
“Get Snuck-Up On.”I say no to Mulgarath, seems like the movie removed the extra crimes that gave the book version enough cruelty to count
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️So, looking into it, the primary quotes regarding Mulgarath's plans:
And
Make of what you will, I'm sticking with my abstain.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 5th 2023 at 10:58:49 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
I feel like he subverts it given he tries to murder all of her loved ones and the first place he’d have arrived to would’ve been her universe.
- Elektra: Assassin, written by Frank Miller: Arthur Berry is a brutal S.H.I.E.L.D. operative first introduced torturing and murdering a possible "subversive" on the flimsiest suspicion of the man being an assassin. Perry's history, which SHIELD deliberately covered up to keep him on as an agent, is far darker, including the murder of his entire family and episodes of rape and murder dating back to the time he was a kid. When he's brought back with an augmented cyborg body after a brush with Elektra, Perry promptly slaughters the man who brought him back and goes about brutally killing every SHIELD agent in his path. Perry's sociopathy attracts the attention of the demonic Beast, and Perry eagerly signs on with the Beast's plans of destroying all humanity in a nuclear apocalypse.
- Dragon Quest VIII: Rhapthorne is a cruel being from the World of Darkness who had warred against the denizens of the World of Light before being sealed within the Godbird Sceptre. Possessing anyone who gets in contact with the Sceptre, Rhapthorne would keep them fully aware of their mental torture. Taking control of Dhoulmagus, Rhapthorne then twists the residents of Castle Trodian into immobile plant people. From there, Rhapthorne has anyone he possesses systematically wipe out the descendants of the sages who had imprisoned him and anyone else who got in his way. Eventually free from the sceptre, Rhapthorne has armies ravage the world, intending on unleashing a new reign of horror upon civilisation.
- Stellestria was a vain and haughty woman responsible for the corruption of the Gittish Empire into hardened conquerors. Building the Gortress, Stellestria would have anyone who disagreed with her brutalities sent there to be enslaved. Anyone not sent to the Gortress, Stellestria would have killed, culminating with her having a cliff full of the graves of her foes. Despite being deceased long before the story's start, Stellestria's evil still lingers on in the Protectorate.* Grimm Eclipse: Dr. Merlot is a scientist who is obsessed with the Grimm, believing that their neverending rage and strength make them the superior species. In his desperation to study them, Merlot attracted Grimm to the Mountain Glenn settlement; this eventually led to the fall of the city, with the countless citizens within being massacred by the Grimm. Those who fled underground were slaughtered as well, resulting in the "world's largest tomb". Surviving the fall, Merlot continues his research into augmenting the Grimm to be even more dangerous, eventually releasing these specimens without caring about the potential damage. When Team RWBY track him down and defeat his Grimm, Merlot decides to detonate the facility in the hopes that he can kill them alongside him.
- The Vampire Diaries & Legacies: Malachai "Kai" Parker is a bloodthirsty witch with a sense of humor to go with it. In his past, Kai was denied the chance to perform the merge ritual with his twin sister Jo and lead the Gemini Coven, and retaliates by murdering his kid siblings. Spending years in a prison world, when Damon and Bonnie arrive, Kai torments them until he escapes, leaving Bonnie behind, while intending to hunt Luke and Liv down. Siphoning leftover magic, Kai experiments by torturing Elena. He eventually comes up on top of the merge, killing Luke in the process. Kai later attacks Jo and Alaric's wedding, stabbing his pregnant sister's stomach. Kai kills himself to complete his transformation, and so that the Gemini Coven will die with him, before binding Bonnie's life with a comatose Elena. Kai later escapes Hell, trying to sacrifice Elena to Cade, and tries to kill his young nieces Josie and Lizzie. Returning years later, Kai tries to leave a group of the students trapped in the prison world, including Josie, before forcing Hope to choose between saving the twins or Landon, as the former will die when the prison world collapses and he has Landon forced to walk a path that could kill him, while he attempts an escape.
- Blackhand, former chieftain of the Blackrock Clan and the first Warchief of the Horde, is an ambitious brute well known for his tactical brilliance and conquest of numerous enemies. Allying with Gul'dan, the warlock stroking Blackhand's ego and hunger for power, the Warchief magically ages his children to make them weapons for his new horde and stamps out all dissent with violence. Leading the genocide of the Draeni people of Draenor, Blackhand happily allows Gul'dan's twisted rape and breeding experiments with captive Draeni women. Upon discovering Azeroth, Blackhand initiates a mass slaughter of human villages with intent to butcher and enslave every human on Azeroth. Caring nothing for his own race and family, Blackhand has the orcs drink the blood of Mannoroth to make them the servants of demons and even orders his own daughter Griselda murdered when she flees the Horde.
- Nekros Skullcrusher is a bitter warlock and the second-in-command of the Dragonmaw clan. Entrusted with the Demon Soul, Nekros led the capture of Dragon Queen Alexstrasza, torturing her physically and psychologically with the artifact. Enslaving her and her last consort, Nekros forces them to mate and breed countless eggs. Aging the baby dragons into weapons, Nekros uses them as mounts for the orcs and ultimately Cannon Fodder, having them slaughtered when injured. Forcing Alexstrasza's compliance by destroying her eggs if she refuses, Nekros plans to use her to breed a new force so the Dragonmaw clan might fight to the absolute last.
- N'Zoth, lord of Ny'alotha, is the weakest of the four Old Gods who arrived on Azeroth in ages past. The craftiest and most wicked of his kin, N'Zoth ruled part of the Black Empire with numerous atrocities until the arrival of the Titans. Sealed away at the bottom of the seas, N'Zoth found a way to whisper in the mind of the Dragon Aspect Neltharion. Steadily swaying Neltharion to become the evil Deathwing and helping to facilitate the genocide of the Blue Dragonflight, N'Zoth also transformed queen Azshara and her followers into the Naga with intent to overwhelm the surface one day. In modern day, N'Zoth twists the Emerald Dream with the Emerald Nightmare to corrupt and destroy the dreaming through his agent Xavius. Empowering Deathwing to cause the Cataclysm and wipe out the face of Azeroth, N'Zoth secretly plans to dispose of the dragon when he is free. Finally unleashing the Naga after arranging a new war between Horde and Alliance, N'Zoth intends to restore the Black Empire to glory in endless atrocity and return creation to the Void.
- Vol. 1, Issue #237—"Night of the Reaper!": Colonel Kurt Schloss is a Nazi who fled the war effort after stealing a fortune from his own side. Revealed to be the infamous concentration camp commandant known as "The Butcher", Schloss oversaw his camp with heinous sadism, enjoying torturing, humiliating, and killing his victims until entire mountains of their corpses were life. Schloss personally murdered Dr. Gruener's entire family while laughing, and Gruener recalls with traumatized horror the countless innocents who suffered under Schloss, including wailing babies.
- The Brave and the Bold Vol. 1 Issues #188-189—"A Grave as Wide as the World!": Martin Bormann and his son "David Phillips" are a pair of fanatical Nazis who seek to create the Fourth Reich. Years ago, during the events of Blitzkrieg Vol. 1 issue #3's "The Execution", Bormann was the second-most powerful Nazi next to Hitler himself, and Bormann personally gave the order to their army to execute any prisoners of war. This lead to the horrific Malmedy massacre and countless other surrendering soldiers being slaughtered where they stood. Fleeing Germany with his son, Bormann dispatched David as a spy to find the heinous chemical weapon Inferno A. After locating Inferno A and testing it on a lake full of animals, David murders his body double and girlfriend to fake his death. Bormann and David plan to unleash Inferno A onto the world and kill entire cities' worth of innocents, hoping for the agonizing deaths of millions to spark their new Nazi uprising. The duo even manipulate a woman into being their pawn by stealing her father's corpse, only to spitefully dump the body in a river and send her to die in the jungle when she complies.
- Tarzan (1996-1998 Dark Horse Comics):
- Issues #1-6—"Tarzan’s Jungle Fury": Princess Regina is the heir to the throne of Arthan, one of two lost civilizations brought back to life by the extraterrestrial plant Tara. Regina is fully on board with the genocide of both the Kavell, the other civilization brought back by Tara, and humanity itself. Regina ventures into the world to seduce Tarzan, intending to mate with him. Choosing Paul D'arthon instead, Regina has him infected by Tara and manipulates him into hating Tarzan. Leading her forces to completely exterminate the Kavell, Regina seemingly reforms and creates a cure for Tara after Paul almost dies. Revealing her duplicity, Regina tries to seduce the Kavell King Johran, tossing Paul aside, revealing she killed her father and that the cure her people took is fake. Overlooking her troops slaughtering the Kavall, Regina tries to poison Johran before spreading Tara across the planet.
- Issues #7-10—"Legion of Hatred": Otto Mann started as just a disrespected Nazi private. Stumbling upon the lost city of Kali, Otto finds the mind-bending Zuli emerald. In order to buy time to master the emerald, Otto manipulates Kali women into helping him enslave Bandago tribe, using the emerald to take control of them, Kali, and his fellow Nazis. Otto uses the emerald to rape Queen Zunnesa, causes Allied planes to crash into one another, and forces his men to commit suicide, almost doing the same to Tarzan's friend Mugambi. Threatening to use the emerald to kill the entire Kali tribe, Otto forces Tarzan into slavery, planning to use the emerald to conquer the world and rape different women every day.
- Issues #17-20—"Tarzan vs the Moon Men": Jamagar Cha-Ron is the leader of the carnivorous Va Gas. Allying himself with Jamagar Or-tis of Kalkan, Cha-Ron has his troops help the Kalkans enslave African people in order to build a landing area for his fleet. Coming to Earth, Cha-Ron brings weapons with to conquer Earth and plans to betray the Kalkans and eat their hearts. He watches as Tarzan is forced to fight an animal mutated into a monstrous slave. Leaving Or-tis to be killed and eaten by his guard, Cha-Ron brings his army to Earth, intent on enslaving humanity.
- The Collector (2009) and The Collection: The titular Serial Killer breaks into families' homes, turning them into deadly traps and torturing the residents, including the children, before "collecting" one he likes best and taking them for gruesome experiments, abducting Arkin for such a fate. When his crimes are uncovered, it's estimated he's killed hundreds. Opening the sequel, the Collector massacres dozens of partygoers at a dance club with his traps, including a harvesting combine which grinds up numerous victims, and an elevator which crushes many more, kidnapping Elena while Arkin escapes. The Collector sends a hospitalized Arkin a note about coming after his family next. During a rescue mission for Elena, it's revealed the Collector drives his captives to feral madness through extensive torture and drugs; while killing off a group of mercenaries that Arkin led to his hideout, the Collector uses them as attack dogs, before trying to burn down his hideout when the police arrive.
- Caged Heat: Superintendent McQueen is a sadistic warden who rules the prison as a brutal fiefdom. The women in the prison are subject to beatings, starvation, and regular mistreatment for real or imagined offenses, with inhumane conditions being extremely common under her rule. When any step out of line or try to escape, McQueen will have them tortured or subject to a painful lobotomy at the hands of the sadistic Dr. Randolph.
- The Cat and the Canary (1978-1979): Charlie Wilder and his accomplice Dr. Hendricks are a pair of murderers seeking the fortune of Cyrus West. The two proceed to murder the other potential heirs to terrify the prime heir Annabelle, gaslighting everyone to believe in a murderer escaped from Hendricks's asylum and also to make them doubt their sanity. After numerous kills, the two attempt to torture Annabelle to death.
- Dead in Tombstone & Dead Again in Tombstone:
- Lucifer is the master of Hell, whose sadism and cruelty have no bounds. Running a Fire and Brimstone Hell where countless souls are constantly tormented, Lucifer personally tortures souls using all manner of painful implements, going so far as to brand his victims and bite them. When Guerrero de la Cruz offers to kill his entire former gang and send their souls to Hell, Lucifer gives him 24 hours to accomplish the task, undermining Guerrero's efforts and shaming his conscience the whole way for his own amusement. Even once Guerrero succeeds, Lucifer still forces him to wander the land and kill dozens more sinners so that Lucifer can slake his sadistic desires on them sooner. When Guerrero eventually breaks free of his bonds, Lucifer, in Dead Again, turns to Col. Jackson Boomer as his new agent and guides the man in his quest to bring Hell's legions to invade the Earth.
- Dead only: Red "Rojo" Cavanaugh is Guerrero's treacherous half-brother with ambition to rule an entire town. Turning a relatively smooth bank heist into a shootout by killing unarmed innocents, Red then betrays and murders Guerrero to take over their gang, wholly ungrateful for the amount of times Guerrero took care of him and saved his life. Red then takes control of the town of Edendale, renaming it "Tombstone" and turning it into a hellish den of rape, torture, and murder as he and his men run rampant. When Guerrero returns from the grave seeking vengeance, Red cares not one lick as his men are picked off one by one—actually threatening several of them himself—and he winds up taking Guerrero's ally Cat as a hostage, proclaiming his intent to rape her and then let his entire gang do the same.
- Dead Again only: Col. Jackson Boomer is a nasty Southern soldier seeking the Horn of Lucifer to enact outright Hell on Earth. Jackson begins by riding into the nearest town, shooting dead the first man who speaks up to him and promptly threatening to massacre everyone else if they can't give him information. Through the movie, in a sick mockery of how Guerrero laid out the bodies of his bounties in the first movie, Boomer props up the bodies of every ally and friend of Guerrero that he kills. When the local holy man takes the bullet for Guerrero and dies, Boomer is satisfied regardless, gloating about the mean streak that runs "all the way down the centre of my spine!" Boomer also threatens to mutilate and murder Guerrero's daughter, and at the end whips up an army of Confederate zombies to wipe out first the town and then the rest of the world.
- Expect No Mercy (1995):
- Warbeck is the cult-like head of the Virtual Arts Academy, using it to turn his students into assassins. Using his kill squads to murder countless people, while having those suspected of spies also killed, Warbeck is hired by a corrupt CEO to kill a company snitch, having the CEO's assistant killed as a display of his capabilities. Killing the CEO after the mission goes awry, Warbeck attempts to bomb the entire Academy and all of his students inside in order to restart his operation elsewhere, even using his traitorous programmer Viki as bait to lure the heroes to their deaths. Eventually revealing himself to be an AI created from several global networks, Warbeck hopes to use his powers to shape the world to his liking, viewing himself as the future of mankind.
- Damian is Warbeck's top assassin who kills and tortures to fuel his gleeful sadism. Killing a CEO's assistant as a show of his power, Damien later tortures an innocent company employee for information by smashing his fingers with a gavel, then killing him with it. Having led several of Warbeck's murder raids, Damian expresses sarcastic remorse when Warbeck orders him to kill one of his squadmates, even hoping to eat his pet iguana afterwards. Assisting Warbeck in his plan to blow up the school and kill everybody inside, Damian spends his final moments happily admitting to killing Eric's friend Jordan for being a spy, before attempting to send Viki plummeting to her death.
- The Legend of Tarzan: Captain Léon Rom is the ambitious envoy to the colonialist King Leopold II of Belgium. Dispatched to steal the Congo's diamonds by his bankrupt king, Rom makes a deal with a local warlord who hates John Clayton III, aka Tarzan, to bring him Tarzan for the jewels. With 800 Congolese slaves forced to build a railway, Rom uses them to lay the ground to bring in a mercenary army, capturing another ten slaves along with Jane to lure out Tarzan. Taking the diamonds, Rom goes to make the payment for the mercenaries, motivated to enslave the whole nation for the glory for saving Leopold's economy.
- The Revenant: Toussaint is the leader of the French trappers. At first appearing to be a reasonable man doing business with the Arikara, he's revealed to be a sadistic racist who exploits them to get rich, belittling them in French in the belief that they can't understand him. Toussaint kidnaps and rapes the Arikara chieftain Elk Dog's daughter Powaqa and blames Hugh Glass's team for it, inciting the Arikara to massacre many of them in order to take out his competition. When his team encounters Hikuc, the friendly Pawnee man who helped Glass earlier, Toussaint has him lynched, displaying his corpse along with a message condemning him as a "savage".
- Nickolai of the North: Magda, formerly an elf banished for practicing dark magic, is a monstrous witch who craves power and eternal youth. To multiply her magic abilities, Magda absorbs the Light Fairies into her heart, thereby gleefully turning the Elf Kingdom's population to lifeless stone. Magda builds a beautiful golden city that lures people from all over the world, and she makes herself young and lovely over and over again by brainwashing the newcomers' children into dull robotic-minded beings, blindly loyal to her. After completing her quest for ultimate power, Magda intends to install her totalitarian regime everywhere and ensnare all the children of the planet.
- Puss in Boots: The Last Wish novelization, by Cala Spinner: "Robbin' Big" Jack Horner lacks most of the comedic elements of his film counterpart to become something far more sinister. Once a lonely baker's boy who sought true happiness, Jack hopes to use the power of the Wishing Star to acquire all the magic in the world, uncaring that it would incite chaos, mass panic, and total destruction just as long as he can hold the whole world under his thumb. Carelessly killing and abusing his own Baker’s Dozen until they're all dead, from burning one alive, to whipping them for fun, Jack proves himself one of the cruelest characters encountered by Puss and friends.
- A Short Stay in Hell, by Steven L. Peck: Dire Dan is an egotistical madman who claims to be a "prophet of God", and proves to Soren Johansson that even in Hell, humans are capable of the most evil. Claiming to have been asked by God to turn the boring, mundane library of Hell into a pit of suffering and torment, Dire Dan amasses a cult and leads them in torturing, raping, and killing thousands of fellow inhabitants of Hell. Taking advantage of the fact that everyone revives within one day of their death, Dire Dan subjects his countless victims to years of constant torture until their minds eventually break into new members of his cult. Any of said members who don't cause enough pain for Dire Dan's liking are themselves turned into torture subjects for the rest.
- Murdoch Mysteries:
- James Gillies is Detective William Murdoch's Arch-Enemy. Murdering a professor before escaping execution by switching places with another man, Gillies savagely saws a man's head off while he's still alive. He then initiates a twisted mind game with Murdoch that culminates in him burying Julia alive, with her only being narrowly rescued by Murdoch. Gillies returns to frame her for the murder of her husband as part of a ploy to force Murdoch to choose between his own life and Julia's. Arranging for the escape of a group of violent criminals aboard a train, Gillies uses the free murderers as a diversion for his own escape. Years after his supposed death, Gillies, now seeking to end his own life, drives a man to insanity, resulting in the man killing two innocents as well as himself, all just to draw out Murdoch and force his nemesis to kill him.
- "Kommando": Major Gregory Cole is a British officer in charge of a squad of Canadian soldiers. Although seemingly a stern, but devoted commander, Cole is revealed to have experimented on his men, dosing them with methamphetamine to test the drug's effectiveness. On a training mission in South Africa, Cole, in an attempt to justify British colonialism, drugged his troops and manipulated them into murdering innocent British families, then had them launch an equally brutal assault on a Boer militia camp, with Cole only revealing the truth to his men after the deed was done, forcing them to keep the atrocity secret. When one soldier, Corporal Matthew Larson, proves unable to cope with his actions, Cole gives him an overdose of methamphetamine, leaving Larson deranged and permanently damaged, then discards him, later having his troops hunt for Larson to silence him, caring nothing when several soldiers are killed in the attempt. When confronted for his crimes, Cole is unapologetic, coldly dismissing his actions as "preserving" the British Empire.
- "Murdoch of the Living Dead": Dr. Luther Bates is a vile and amoral psychiatrist who lost his license
due to his unethical practices. Later employed as a prison doctor, Bates uses the prisoners to test his theories about brain surgery, intending to gain fame and fortune by eliminating aggression and violence from humanity. Performing lobotomies on dozens of inmates, Bates' experiments leaves them, at best, barely conscious shells of their former selves, and at worst, psychotically violent, faking the deaths of his successes to release them back into society. After an abused woman blackmails Bates into performing his procedure on her husband, leaving him nearly catatonic, Bates has the woman murdered by throwing her to his psychotic failed experiments to avoid the flaws in his procedure being exposed. When Detective Murdoch uncovers the extent of Bates's crimes, Bates, with a smug smile, tries to have him killed by one of the psychotic inmates as well before releasing the rest of them on the streets of Toronto to cover his own attempted escape, intending to resume his experiments elsewhere.
- "On the Waterfront" two-parter:
- Cecily McKinnon is the seemingly benign Toronto harbormaster, but is later revealed to be the equally vile O'Shea brothers' cold and ruthless employer, profiting from the violence and fear they enact on the docks. Having Inspector Brackenreid attacked by the O'Sheas, McKinnon turns up to watch the beating for her own amusement and leaves the Inspector to die for investigating her criminal activities. When fellow businessperson Richard Dawkins uncovers McKinnon's Human Trafficking business, McKinnon has him brutally murdered and tries to frame Dawkins for her own crimes, nearly succeeding in avoiding justice and selling off several innocent women into slavery. When Brackenreid fights back against the O'Sheas, McKinnon murders the brothers to try and frame Brackenreid, and when confronted herself, she proves to be utterly shameless about her atrocities, making a final attempt to murder Brackenreid before being finally being brought to justice.
- Mick and Tim O'Shea, who debuted in "The Death of Dr. Ogden", are a pair of psychopathic Irish immigrants who control the Toronto waterfront for McKinnon. The O'Sheas control the docks through violence and extortion, keeping people too afraid to challenge them, smugly reveling in their power over others. When Inspector Brackenreid investigates the O'Sheas' crimes, the brothers savagely beat him and leave him for dead, later threatening the Inspector's family to force his silence. They are revealed to be involved in Human Trafficking as well, selling women from Hungary into slavery. When businessman Richard Dawkins discovers the human trafficking and tries to save some of the women, the O'Sheas drown one of the women who managed to escape before brutally beating Dawkins to death. When Detective Murdoch tries to arrest the O'Sheas, the brothers sic their gang on the police, staying out of the fray until they have a chance to try and beat Murdoch to death.
- The Rookie (2018): Rosalind Dyer is a Serial Killer notorious for her complex gambits, and is driven by a combination of sadism and an obsession with attention. Over two years, Rosalind enacted a series of vicious murders by torture and mutilation with no set victim type, killing random men and women of every race and ethnicity, making her the most prolific killer in the history of California. Imprisoned, Rosalind, upon meeting up with "Caleb Wright", had him enact a twisted plan to keep her game going, first burying the women he killed amongst her still-missing victims, whilst she played mind games with the LAPD, finally having Caleb go after Detective Nick Armstrong who arrested her. Returning for her new trial, Rosalind escaped by corrupting her lawyer into murdering a deputy in exchange for slaughtering her parents, carrying on her murder spree until deciding she wanted to go out in a blaze of glory, she imprisoned Nolan's girlfriend Bailey in a Drowning Pit, attempting to force Nolan to kill her to prove "even saints can become murders".
- Vera's "Little Lazarus": Danny Hale is a psychopathic young man out to get revenge on a woman called Carla Davies. Growing up in care, Hale developed an instant hatred for Carla due to her good looks and likeable personality, and tortured and raped her for years, traumatising her well into adulthood. Moved to a young offenders' institute after Carla reported him, Hale swore revenge. Tracking her down and discovering that she had had a baby son called Adam, Hale threatened to murder Adam in his pram. Scarred in the face when Carla defended herself, Hale spent years in pursuit and, upon catching her, bludgeoned her to death with a baseball bat and attempted to do the same to Adam. Discovering Adam had survived after he successfully hid, Hale pursued him again and pointlessly gunned down one of Adam's neighbours for being in the way, only being stopped when Vera arrested him. In a world full of sympathetic murderers and tragic villains, Hale stood out as a brutal exception.
- Enola Holmes 2:
- Viscount Charles McIntyre is Chancellor of the Exchequer and the mastermind of a conspiracy at the Lyon Matchstick Factory, in which he holds a large stake, to save money by switching the incendiary agent in the matches from red phosphorus to white, despite knowing that the latter type is a deadly carcinogen. Already extremely rich himself, McIntyre condemns hundreds of workers to agonizing deaths from cancer to fatten his pockets a bit more, and even destroys documents implicating him in front of multiple witnesses while mocking them over their "lack" of proof.
- Superintendent Grail is a high-ranking and horrifically corrupt London Police official. Accepting bribes from Mira Troy to keep the Lyon Factory conspiracy secret, Grail becomes an assassin of witnesses and would-be whistleblowers, his favorite method of dispatch being throat-slitting. When Enola comes close to unmasking his role in the plot, Grail sees to it that she is arrested for one of his own murders, then pays off prison guards to have her killed on the inside. After Enola escapes, Grail kills the factory owner's son and attempts to massacre Enola and all the other remaining witnesses, including a little girl, in a final showdown.
- Star Trek/X-Men: Second Contact: Kang the Conqueror, after arranging for mass anomalies in the time stream, leads to "bad futures" of oppression and mass death to trick the X-Men and crew of the Enterprise into "fixing" them, with the heroes unaware that these are the time stream's way of correcting the damage. Intending to manipulate the heroes to give him control of the time stream and erasing entire planes from existence, Kang attempts to wipe out anyone who could ever be a threat and destroy the Enterprise completely.
- The Astral Dragon Atruum is a draconic deity embodied by the Blood Moon. Millennia ago, Atruum and his Asura waged a war against the Celestial Primatis—a simian deity embodied by the Alabaster Moon—and his Deva over who would get to rule over the world and devour the souls of mortals. Vanquished, the dying Atruum formed a blood contract with an imperiled clan of humans, marking them with the Dragon Scar in emulation of Primatis's Holy Stigmata. Feigning benevolence, Atruum was worshipped as a guardian deity by the Dragonblood Clan—his disembodied soul sustained by their faith—while plotting to sacrifice them to be reborn. When the Divine King Duchis Medius carried out a genocide against his worshippers, Atruum manipulated a survivor into swearing revenge, empowering them through their Dragon Scar and instructing them to strengthen themselves by consuming the souls of slain enemies. Once the Divine King was vanquished and Primatis withdrew from the mortal world, Atruum revealed his deception, using his priestess Amica's body as a vessel and attempting to devour the survivor. In one ending, Atruum uses the survivor as a vessel to be reborn more powerful than ever, destroying the Alabaster Moon to kill Primatis and ruling over humankind with contempt.
- Forest of Drizzling Rain: While the Kotori Obake/Taking Spirit is revealed to be a tragic figure, the same cannot be said for the men responsible for her creation in both versions:
- Original game and manga: The first Ogami-san, though seen as the hero of old who protected Azakawa Village, is the one behind the Kotori Obake's horrific past. To satisfy his lust, he created a system where criminals' wives and children would be sold into sexual slavery, imprisoning them in a dungeon to hide their suffering. Lusting after an unnamed village woman, he falsely accused her of manipulating men to commit crimes so he could slaughter her husband and son, then imprison her so he and his men could rape and impregnate her. Mocking her all the while, he killed the fetus to make her suffer even more.
- Remake: The Forest God, a wicked snake who was once the benevolent protector of the forest, now only wants to force Azakawa Village to worship him. In return for the villagers taking rice from his forest in the past, the Forest God threatened to drown them unless they regularly sacrificed young maidens to him. When Tsuyu Kanzaki mistook the Forest God for an ordinary snake and had his physical form killed, he cursed her brother, the forest Stone Guardian, to lust for and hate her, then ordered him to kill her family and make her a Sex Slave. The Forest God's actions caused Tsuyu to become the Taking Spirit who would devour children and condemn their spirits to endless suffering over centuries, to his apathy, while his curse would bring about the deaths of many in the Kanzaki bloodline, including the parents of Shiori Kanzaki and Kotarou Suga. In Ending 6, the Forest God kidnaps Miyako Sakuma, gets Shiori to sacrifice herself to him to ensure her safety, and painfully devours Tsuyu and all the ghost children.
- Nathan is a member of the Fatui and an agent of Pierro who is used to prolong the war by commanding several Orobashi fanatics to destroy the Narukami Pillars, murdering thousands of innocents and leaving the island mostly deserted. Those who did not leave the island will be affected by the Tatarigami, causing them to have many illnesses, such as hallucinations. Nathan also helps Scaramouche in the Black Market of Delusions to extend the war, leading to several soldiers dying slowly and painfully.
- Babel Tanit, the Matriarch of the Tanit Tribe, at first presents herself as a benevolent leader who welcomes the Traveler after they are invited by Jeht. In truth, Babel is a Manipulative Bitch who only allowed the invite because she saw an opportunity to use the Traveler for her own gain, having previously corrupted Jeht into her own personal assassin to kill the leaders before her; colluded with some Fatui mooks; betrayed said mooks; tricked the Traveler and Jeht into fighting one another under the claim that they had been betrayed by the other; and then sent her Tanit Falcons to finish them off. The instant Jeht realizes Babel's treachery and confronts her in vengeance, Babel reveals she had the Traveler and Jeht find the Eternal Oasis for her so she could use it to attack Sumeru City and overthrow the Akademiya and Dendro Archon, before commanding the entire tribe to kill Jeht and the Traveler while she runs off to her quarters, leading to Jeht killing the entire tribe to get to her. Even after all the claims of caring for Jeht like a daughter, Babel reveals in her last moments that she had some scouts message every other Eremite tribe about Jeht being a traitor, forever rendering her an outcast and proving that she never loved her, only claiming to in an attempt to make Jeht easier for her to kill.
- Xorn, the Fallen Guardian, is a force of destruction who destroyed the Verse Realms many years ago and seeks to return to turn everything into a lifeless void. Using Emelious as a vessel, Xorn had him kill the remaining Guardians for his return, invading and causing countless deaths and ruining the natural balance of the world. Having been resurrected by Grau, Xorn begins disposing of his pawns by turning them into glass before turning everything into a wasteland through his tendrils or spawn, mocking Alfina and the party by disparaging Emelious's final stand against him before trying to kill them as the final step towards perishing all life.
- Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction: General Choi Song, the son of North Korean President Choi Kim, is a vicious nationalist and terrorist. Opposing his father's wishes for democracy, Song orchestrates a bloody coup that results in the murders of almost everyone at the peace talks, only sparing his father so he could be tortured for the nuclear launch codes. Sent into hiding by the Allied Nations after it comes to light that he was in possession of nuclear missiles, Song proceeds to ruthlessly terrorize both his own country and surrounding Asia, including having his forces engage indiscriminately with other factions in populated areas; building more missiles to sell to terrorists; having the streets of Seoul shelled by a supergun; ordering artillery shelling of Chinese territory; construction of a massive supergun with the range to hit Tokyo with radiated shells; and having Yongbyon leveled in an attempt to eliminate new Russian mob boss Josef Yurinov. When finally cornered by the Mercenary, Song decides to launch all of his nuclear missiles at the world as a spiteful parting gift, solely blaming the Mercenary for taking away his army and country.
- Mister Sinister is a clone of Nathaniel Essex—a tragic, morally bankrupt nineteenth-century eugenicist—and has established himself as one of the most consistently awful villains the X-Men faced, lacking the good qualities of the original Essex. Sinister was approached by Apocalypse and granted great power, only to betray Apocalypse and strike out on his own. Recognizing his own genetic handiwork in some of the Morlocks, a group of street-dwelling mutants, Sinister hired the Marauders to exterminate them, because he viewed their existence as plagiarism. Obsessed with Scott Summers's bloodline, Sinister cloned Jean Grey, and sent the clone, Madelyne Pryor, to have a child with Scott, so that he might then steal the child. He later tried to use the High Evolutionary space station in order to alter the genetics of the entire planet; failing in this endeavor, Sinister later sent out the Marauders to murder everyone who knew about the dark future where Apocalypse ruled the world. On another occasion he merged with the Dreaming Celestial and transformed the entire population of San Francisco into clones of himself. At another time, Sinister promised to free the Weapon X project's prisoners from the concentration camp they were held in, only to turn around and use them as part of his own experiments. Concerned only with his mad genetic theories, Sinister has worked with everyone from Josef Mengele to Apocalypse in the interest of furthering his research, and making himself the dominant life form on Earth.
- Vol. 2's "Hunted" & "Stay Alive" arcs; 2001 Anmual's "The Watch": Jean-Pierre Beaubier, aka Mauvais, is a French-Canadian cannibal and sorcerer whose powers derive from living flesh. Released from his tomb in a superhuman prison, Mauvais rejuvenates his powers by consuming the regenerative flesh of Wolverine, even ripping out Wolverine's eyes while he's awake and screaming. Mauvais goes onto kill and eat dozens of innocent people, building a larder of half-eaten hobos and slaughtering every contestant in a game show, all in a ritual meant to invoke the Wendigo. Mauvais wants to take the beating heart of the Wendigo and eat it to become its successor, giving him the power to banish the gods who sealed him away and then take over Canada.
- Switchback, written by Joseph Clark: Sheriff MacReedy is a Serial Killer who uses a switchback curve to pick off his victims, a curve he's deliberately rigged to cause car accidents. These accidents aren't always fatal, and in that event the Sheriff drags them back to his cabin to finish them off. The Sheriff admits he kills For the Evulz, giving his innocent victims the "reality" he claims they all crave; his cabin alone is mounted with around two-dozen bodies he's kept as trophies.
- Artemis: Requiem: Dalkriig-Hath is a lord of Hell who rules over thousands of souls with torturous cruelty. Hath keeps a harem of women for him to rape and torture at his leisure, subjecting Artemis herself to this fate. When his top general Belyllioth loses in a fight, Hath has her whipped thousands of times as punishment, and then tries to sentence Wonder Woman to the same fate when she saves the general. Having manipulated the Hellender team into unwittingly doing his bidding, Hath sends many demons to terrorize humanity before opening a portal to Earth and immediately slaughtering most of the Hellenders. Hath then proclaims his intent to create a new horrific kingdom of Hell on Earth itself by killing thousands of humans and using their souls as his meat puppets, and in the process Hath hopes to recapture an escaped Artemis to rape her into submission once again.
- What if Darth Vitiate Returned During the Clone Wars (link
): Vitiate kills the billions of people on Ryloth right after he appears in the Clone Wars timeline, an action which shocks Count Dooku himself. Vitiate kills both Mace Windu and Dooku, destroys their armies, and sends his forces to purge many planets of life across the Outer Rim. Vitiate plans to continue his slaughter until he burns the galaxy to the ground, and tries to kill his attacking enemies on Korriban when they attempt to stop him.
- It (1990): IT is a predatory eldritch entity that vaguely resembles a giant spider and dwells in a cavern under the city of Derry, Maine. Awakening every thirty years, IT has terrorized the populace of Derry since at least the early 1700s. A gleeful sadist that savours the taste of fear, IT uses its shapeshifting and illusory powers to terrify its victims; decorating its lair with their cocooned corpses. Preferring to eat children, IT uses the comical guise of Pennywise the Dancing Clown to lure them in; its psychic influence causing most adults to be apathetic and clouding the memories of those who leave Derry. In 1960, IT ripped off six-year-old Georgie Denbrough's arm, repeatedly tormenting his older brother Bill and the other six members of the Losers' Club with their worst fears when they rallied to stop its child-killing spree. Seemingly vanquished, IT returns in 1990 and leaves a young girl's mangled remains as a message to the Losers' Club that it survived. When they return to end its reign of terror, IT repeatedly taunts them over Stan's suicide, breaks Henry Bowers out of prison to kill them, abducts Bill's wife Audra and leaves her comatose with its Deadlights, and finally crushes Eddie with its claws.
- Thulsa Doom is a skull-headed fiend and dark sorcerer who has been plaguing the world since before Atlantis sunk. Thulsa Doom is the Arch-Enemy of Kull the Conqueror, with a penchant for returning from the dead that few can match. Doom once overthrew Kull as king of Valusia, where his tyranny led to widespread torture, execution, and suffering, with soldiers once loyal to Kull forced to try and slay him as Thulsa Doom threatens to murder their families. As this happens, Doom secretly manipulated the denizens of an ancient, immortal city to fulfill a prophecy and trap Kull in their walls for all time, forever ripped from the reprieve of death. Doom also once manipulated Conan into a series of human sacrifices that he uses to restore his power, promptly attempting to kill the Barbarian as soon as he's done with him. Doom's final scheme, as nothing more than a detached skull, has him rallying the Serpent Men into more grotesque human sacrifices, intending to have the Serpent Men come upon humanity and destroy them all.
- ReBoot: Megabyte abandons his occasional moments of genuine affability to fulfill his role as The Virus in Season 3. Trapping the Guardian Bob in the Web, Megabyte uses the chance to attempt to take over the Mainframe, intent on infecting the Supercomputer and eventually the entire Net. Having his insane sister Hexidecimal killed then revived, Megabyte has her fitted with a Shock Collar, using her immense power to force her to power his weapon. Breaking into the Central Office, Megabyte decapitates the Mainframe's head Phong, torturing the still-living sprite to amuse himself; all the while tormenting the young sprite seeking to save the Mainframe, deleting countless other sprites and casually mistreating his own minions. Even once defeated, Megabyte leaves the Mainframe so damaged it is unable to recover, forcing the heroes to risk crashing the system for the chance of rebirth.
There was Thimbletack also ranting about how much danger everyone was in with the Book and Arthur Spiderwick writing or talking about how sinister Mulgarath wants to get towards everyone too. So that's four different characters talking about him with revulsion and fear. Those two quotes are from Hogsqueal and Lucinda respectively.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 5th 2023 at 1:38:40 AM
- Tanjou! Ankoku no Princess Black Lady (Birth! Black Lady, Princess of Darkness): Wiseman is the depraved, manipulative advisor to the Black Moon Clan. Sending a pair of twin children to lead Chibiusa to him so that he can brainwash her, he coldly mocks members of the Black Moon Clan, like Esmeraude, when injured. When he brainwashes Chibiusa, he does the same to Saphir later and forces him to fight Prince Demande, his brother. When his brainwashed pawns are freed, he simply decides to murder them all, killing every member of the Black Moon Clan except for Demande, who survives, intending on exterminating existence itself.
How’s that look?
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 5th 2023 at 11:37:20 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”@ACW: I’m guessing that you’re going to wait for when Cesare gets his write-up first before you post the Monger am i correct?
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

Future: It doesn't. Its more the concern that in film if he's really heinous enough to qualify, especially considering he doesn't have the stand out crimes his book counterpart did.