Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Wiseman is like Sailor Moon Zamasu when it comes to being a CM. It seems like every version of him keeps lol.
Do you think it’s ok to make an IP thread for the Sailor Moon Monster page/sandbox yet?
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 4th 2023 at 8:04:53 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”
Wiseman... again
@Power IIRC he does do a fair few Enemy Mines if that could be the issue.
@Sailor There's spaces on the IP forum so feel free but just note there it's for the Sandbox.
Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 4th 2023 at 4:06:21 PM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!This is the last Wiseman tbh. There are probably Fan Fic versions out there though.
“Get Snuck-Up On.”I think the one thing that would keep Venger off is the events of the cancelled Grand Finale, which would have revealed he was the Nameless One's corrupted pawn, but—although I believe materials for the finale have been released and it's intended to be canon—he may be able to pass on the technicality of the cartoon itself having been cancelled before we got to that point.
I made an IP thread propose the image thing.
Sorta fucked up the name though.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 4th 2023 at 8:13:01 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”Yes to another Wiseman. Who'd have thought a Shojo that wasn't Banana Fish would have so many contenders? Let alone Sailor Moon?
Edit: Speaking of Banana Fish? I can imagine there being enough villains who are vile enough to warrant a page given that many participate in rape.
Edited by Klavice on Mar 4th 2023 at 8:14:34 AM
to all the incarnations of Wiseman that were Effort Posted, including the adaptations. (That's not against the rules right?)
Im starting to come to the conclusion that I am not good with Complete Monster images. I mean…at least I tried?
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 4th 2023 at 8:59:14 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”
Musical Wisemen, Pharaoh 90 and Nellhenia, both Zhaos and Ozais, Governor, Th Girl in the Pink Hat, Stu Maker, Harry X, Dark King Mechakara, Future Jhudora, Eithne and Tura-Kepek, Yeom, Cesare, Lir, Qin, Cell, Blue John, Barclay, Pirate Leader, Astrid, Adolphus, Giop, Morgan.
Abstain on Notuboi and Kanadakai, Kefka.
Agree to wait and see on Kang the Conqueror.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me BlaineIf this doesn’t work…Whatever.
I added the Queen Metallia one to my image thread…and it features Beryl too.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 4th 2023 at 9:47:17 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”I have the writeup for the Exiled Kang saved for down the road in the event he really is dead. Anybody who wants to see it? Feel free to PM me.
Haven't tried one of new EP formats here yet—all the candidates I got partial credit for so far that went up recently each had one from someone else, so I figure now would be a good time to try. I think Lighty is gonna eventually do the film version of Verger whether or not I'm actually involved in that one, so here's the other one I was working on earlier—also, since the needle was moved back on my MCU keeper for this, I'm hoping to make up for it with a Nick CM here—given the recent Avatar love—to match my Nick one with Danny Phantom over on MB:
- Work: The Spiderwick Chronicles: 2008 film adaptation of the popular fantasy book series, about three siblings discovering faerie creatures inhabit the world through a special Book—"Field Guide"—and are being threatened, they have to stop the beastly Big Bad from following through on his insatiable desires for said Book.
- Who/What: Mulgarath is the ravenous and mean-spirited ogre
- seeking Arthur Spiderwick's Field Guide about faeries so that he can hunt down and kill them for control of the world—
- having used knowledge to kill Hogsqueal the hobgoblin's family before that.
- Capturing and interrogating Simon Grace, Mulgarath only lets him go so he can get the Book for him
- —and then proceeds to have his goblin minions attack and nearly kill Simon along with siblings Jared and Mallory in the process—the three barely surviving and two of them wounded—their Great Aunt Lucinda at age 6 having been attacked and given the same scar wound Mallory has on her arm.
- Mulgarath then launches a bigger attack on the house to kill the kids along with their mother Helen for the Book, personally tearing his way through it himself eventually
- and even trying harsh emotional manipulation at another point too by shape-shifting into the children's estranged father Richard.
- Additional Info: Threatening the Graces one last time after Jared calls his bluff on the Richard act with an I Never Said It Was Poison, Mulgarath directly goes for Jared who has the Book. Jared then throws the Book off the top of the roof and Mulgarath dives after it. He then turns into a crow, catches it and then starts to fly away—only to be promptly devoured by Hogsqueal moments later (hopefully Mulgarath doesn't turn into ogre remains in his stomach haha).
- Redeeming/Mitigating: Mulgarath cares nothing at all about his minions—horribly mistreating Red Cap when he and the others fail and not rewarding any of them when they do something right, his letting Simon go initially is just to get what he wants—same as acting polite and then falsely claiming he'll leave him alone afterward—and then intending to kill him and his siblings once he has the Book and he has absolutely no cause for his evil beyond just wanting to kill whichever creatures he can get his hands on—so of course no to all.
- Heinous Standard: Concern could be that his crimes are not highlighted enough, but here's why I think they are: Killing Hogsqueal's family had a profound effect on Hogsqueal—and while he's easily distracted and those few bits are Played for Laughs, he still otherwise talks seriously about Mulgarath; different creatures, Arthur Spiderwick himself and Lucy stating and/or believing Mulgarath will kill them all too—while he also proves how threatening he is in the process—and the other creatures doing what they can to prevent Mulgarath from getting the Book and his threatening and injuring the family—not to mention trying to gaslight them later while pretending to be the father—all helps illustrate his nastiness in spirit and allows for the storytelling to come through on the weight and terror of all his actions—and the savagery in having the kids attacked—with Simon and Mallory each getting painful wounds—shows even more when you find out their great aunt—a 6-year-old little girl at the time—went through the exact same thing (and see the scar to match too).
- Verdict: He's significant enough for a
from me at least.
- Preemptive writeup:
- The Spiderwick Chronicles: Mulgarath is the ravenous and mean-spirited ogre seeking Arthur Spiderwick's Field Guide about faeries so that he can hunt down and kill them for control of the world—having used knowledge to kill Hogsqueal the hobgoblin's family before that. Capturing and interrogating Simon Grace, Mulgarath only lets him go so he can get the Book for him— and then proceeds to have his goblin minions attack and nearly kill Simon along with siblings Jared and Mallory in the process—the three barely surviving and two of them wounded—their Great Aunt Lucinda at age 6 having been attacked and given the same scar wound Mallory has on her arm. Mulgarath then launches a bigger attack on the house to kill the kids along with their mother Helen for the Book, personally tearing his way through it himself eventually and even trying harsh emotional manipulation at another point too by shape-shifting into the children's estranged father Richard.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 5th 2023 at 1:01:17 AM
Wiseman
Also, discussion date for Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey has passed. No keepers. Pooh and Piglet are portrayed as tragic figures driven mad with grief, with Pooh in particular being conflicted enough to spare Christopher Robin at the end.
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation hereWhen was it stated he planned to kill everything ?
In the book he just wants it to know their weaknesses and abuse it to take over the world which isn't exactly that impressive (I really doubt they bumped it that much from memory). His rapsheet seems really lackluster otherwise (attacking Lucia sounds bad but not torturing her till she gets crippled from the books bad)?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I was rewatching the movie and they said on a few occasions that he was gonna kill them all. They make the threat pretty explicit.
I also haven't read any of the books either, so I'm going in with no unintentional associations with them too.
While I haven't finished rewatching the movie yet—which I started from the beginning and didn't skip around during either, I'm past the part when Mulgarath dies. So I've pretty much seen everything related to his involvement in the movie by this point.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 5th 2023 at 1:06:49 AM

Edited by Powermaster201 on Mar 4th 2023 at 11:07:45 AM