Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Yes to script!Stu and I got a possible New 52 CM to knock off, courtesy of Rav...from issue 0 of the New 52 Batgirl run.
- A brutal serial killer, Harry X was put away for human trafficking and murder: he was put away when the RCMP looted his compound and discovered a well full of deceased women from eastern Europe, all with broken necks (his "signature move"). Harry X's only remark about this is that he killed the women just "for giving him sass."
- And he's not done the murdering yet. Harry X promptly arranges for his gang to break him out, resulting in a full-on slaughter of many of the police officers there, many of which Harry guns down himself. When an officer tries to stop him, Harry X makes a point of trying to beat the man to death in front of Barbara (this particular cop does survive) just to spite her: "I'm going to kill this man. That's on you for running."
- Speaking of Barbara herself—Harry X tries to take her and her little brother James as hostages, only to try and murder James since he doesn't need two hostages. James tries to take Barbara as a hostage with clear licentious intent for her before she suits up as Batgirl and kicks his ass.
- The only possible rub, since even though Harry X is mostly just a regular human serial killer (albeit one with a small entourage of minions) the New 52 is dark, and we never get brass tacks on his victims (aside from the half-dozen or so cops who die because of him in the breakout). The gruesome flourishes he has in his one issue—he covers everything from human trafficking to attempted child murder—may qualify him for a regular old Joe.
- Nah.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 4th 2023 at 6:28:06 AM
Based on the EP, EASY
to the script Stu. I read part of that script once because I DEFINITELY remember the "small dick" kill line. Haha. That script also ended I think with Randy asking Sidney out to a movie and her saying as long as it was a Meg Ryan one. Haha.
Wondering if that Scream 3 script with Stu revealed to be alive and creating a Ghostface cult will come through here at some point. Would totally make sense.
Scream VI even without seeing it yet is gonna be a BIG discussion. Looking forward to leading it.
Based on the EPs,
to the video game Ozai and
to Harry.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 7th 2023 at 1:35:16 AM
Also, I got a question...how do we deal with information that's relayed to us only in the game's manual?
I'm asking because of Red Faction: Guerilla, which has some information that'd probably allow us to reinstate a CM we cut: Admiral Kobel. Essentially the character is mostly just an overpowering, looming force in the game (he has about one major scene where he chews out the game's ostensible Big Bad, General Roth, before displacing him in command) but the manual makes it clear Kobel's been arranging the situation from the start to take over the reins whenever the EDF officially loses patience with Roth. If anyone needs a source
...
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 4th 2023 at 6:48:07 AM
@ACW:: I guess the one thing that might swing me is that they kind of reference it in-game itself in the form of Kobel relieving Roth of command, but that's the thing—nothing in the game itself indicates he was actually plotting this. They just show the moment he displaces Roth. With that All There in the Manual moment, though, that move is recontextualized as a deliberate political ploy.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 4th 2023 at 6:54:55 AM
- Grandia III: Xorn the fallen Guardian, is a force of destruction who destroyed the Verse Realms many years ago and seeks to return to turn everything into a lifeless void. Using Emelious as a vessel, Xorn had him kill the remaining Guardians for his return, invading and causing countless death and ruining the natural balance of the world. Having been resurrected by Grau, Xorn begins disposing his pawns by turning them into glass before turning everything into a wasteland through his tendril or spawn, mocking Alfina and the party by disparaging Emelious final stand against him before trying to kill them as the final step into perishing all life.
I mean I wouldn't mind revisiting Kobel, since the manual expands and confirms on what the game implies. I think we revisited Bagul on similar grounds, such as his past being expanded on "in the manuel".
Though I'm also a little iffy about Kobel relying too much on exposition; mainly because I recently second guessed another candidate (from a Final Destination book) whose character is told entirely through exposition (PM if you want details or to give a second opinion).
But if anyone else is up for Kobel, that's fine with me.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."I’m willing to read a Re-evolve EP on Kobel with new updated information
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 4th 2023 at 9:49:27 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Harry.
I'm just gonna abstain on Stu. I've always felt weird about screenplay proposals since they're essentially just unfinished versions of the final product (it kind of feels like writing up a character based on a deleted scene). But especially here, when the final version already counts, it kind of feels superfluous. It's not really a reason to vote No, though, which is why I'm just abstaining.
Why so serious?
Harry
Anyone here watched the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon because I think there's a keeper that's Venger. Dude's vile as shit for a cartoon baddie. I know the franchise has dozens upon dozens of keepers so I'd thought I'd ask the thread incase he was already deemed a non keeper.
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Not sure if he’s been discussed since I wasn’t here long enough to know.
And now…
Wiseman…again.
What is the work?
Sera Myu… Petite Étrangère (Little Stranger), another adaptation of the Black Moon arc. Guess who the candidate is?
Who is Wiseman?
The Big Bad of the Musical, Wiseman is everything he is in canon. He is first seen informing the Black Moon Clan that the Silver Crystal of the future is now in the past with the Rabbit (Chibiusa)
Esmeraude volunteers to goes back into the past and claim it by tracking down the Rabbit. Esmeraude ends up killed by the Senshi and Tuxedo Mask, and Wiseman doesn’t care.
Rei later reveals that she saw the Black Moon symbol in the Sacred Fire, and as we know from lore of all of Sailor Moon, something like that in the fire is usually a horrible omen. They connect it and realize that must have been the same symbol on Esmeraude’s forehead, which Rei confirmed.
Wiseman continues manipulating Demande, who send Rubeus at the Senshi next. Rubeus is killed, but he abducts the Senshi save Venus and Moon, as well as abducting Tuxedo Mask. Elsewhere, Saphir replaces Rubeus and Esmeraude with Droids.
As usual, Wiseman snatches Chibiusa when the heroes travel to the future to stop Black Moon and turns her into Black Lady. Demande abducts Moon.
Wiseman Knocks Saphir aside during a fight with the Senshi and reveals he was using the Clan as Pawns (Saphir killed Demande btw) and had no intention of letting them rewrite history. When Saphir attacks, it reveals a rotting corpse and the whole explanation of Wiseman having been an earth criminal who hijacked Nemesis is revealed. Wiseman has Black Lady and a brainwashed Tuxedo Mask (who breaks free during the fight) attack the Senshi. Saphir attempts to end all life on Earth by having the Silver Crystals of the present and future touch, taking the place of Demande when he attempted this in the Manga. Pluto stops time and kills him, before dying herself. This causes Chibiusa to break free from Wiseman’s control and undergo a Traumatic Superpower Awakening. Wiseman attempts to eradicate all life and is stopped by the heroes, namely Usagi and Chibiusa.
Redeeming Qualities? Mitigating Factors?
He’s Wiseman so no. He’s the same depraved, cloaked, Omnicidal piece of shit as always.
Is he bad enough?
Sets it for this musical. Though Saphir might also be worth a look. Saphir underwent significant adaptational villainy and even his care for the Clan is removed.
Wiseman is his usual self. Omnicidal Maniac. Chessmaster. Mind Manipulator. Etc.
Verdict?
Yep.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 4th 2023 at 8:00:13 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”

Damn third proposal it gets rejected. Well whatever, it's good.
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Mar 4th 2023 at 4:50:41 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)