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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
DecafGrub47393 Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is an open door
#6553: Mar 3rd 2023 at 4:16:46 PM

[tup]Morgan

Here's looking at you, kid.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6554: Mar 3rd 2023 at 4:26:24 PM

Yes to Morgan, if only due to Murder by Inaction.

I'll try to have mine this weekend, so we can do the lock next weekend.

I've got an MB I wanna do (not from this series), but I'll give the CM priority.

Edited by ACW on Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:31:29 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
CookieMonster69 Since: Feb, 2019
#6556: Mar 3rd 2023 at 4:39:47 PM

So uh, is it ok if I have Transformers: EarthSpark season 2, please?

[down][down] Alright, thanks.

Edited by CookieMonster69 on Mar 3rd 2023 at 4:59:29 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#6557: Mar 3rd 2023 at 4:44:58 PM

Yes to Morgan and Star raises the exact point that was deemed crucial to including his actions, they stay with the main verse one, even if that particular storyline has a pitiable motive.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#6559: Mar 3rd 2023 at 5:38:49 PM

Joker's a VERY unique case.
Considering the current canon is that there was (at least) three Jokers running around Gotham, that's an understatement.
[tup] Morgan

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#6560: Mar 3rd 2023 at 6:02:34 PM

Have another EP tonight before I get up my next writeups, which I'm currently too exhausted to do. This guy I've had in reserve for a while.

From the Maciste movie Hercules Against the Mongols...

    Who is Adolphus? What has he done? 
  • Introduced as a good guy, a royal confidant of Princess Bianca—rightful ruler of the city of Tuleda, which the eponymous Mongols invade and conquer—Adolphus is actually The Quisling conspiring with the Mongols.
  • Adolphus has facilitated the invasion of Tuleda because he knows the location of a secret, ancient treasure that the Mongols have been tearing apart Europe in search of. In league with Susdal Khan (one of the three sons of Genghis, who are already up) from the beginning, Adolphus set up his own city to burn so he and Susdal could split the treasure.
  • A slimy Manipulative Bastard, Adolphus goes as far as to fake his own torture to convince Bianca he's on her side, while poisoning Bianca's mind with insinuations Maciste is betraying her. All the while, Adolphus lives in comfy luxury as he sells out thousands of his own people to slavery, torture, and death.
  • In the climax, Adolphus and Susdal make their move while Susdal's two brothers are occupied. Adolphus gives over a child he tricked to Susdal as a hostage, then tries to dispose of Bianca in an exceptionally sadistic way; trapping her in a room with a Descending Ceiling, mocking her by stating "sorry I can't stay around to listen to your cries of agony." As he tries to make his escape, the same child he gave over to Susdal points him out to the Christians who have come to liberate the city and he's struck down by a volley of archers.
    Heinous standard? 
  • My main hesitation always came in the fact that Adolphus never directly participates in the torture and slaughter that the Khans and every one of their servants seem to be apt on getting up to, but that's just it—he's still responsible for all of it by selling out his city. We see lavish depictions of innocents subject to grueling slavery, mass executions and cruel torture, all while Adolphus kicks up his feet with the knowledge his own people are suffering because of his cooperation with the Mongols. The film fully emphasises Treachery Is a Special Kind of Evil, treating him just as evil as the Khans and as one of the main antagonists.
    Redeeming qualities? 
  • Absolutely none.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#6561: Mar 3rd 2023 at 6:12:14 PM

[tup] Adolphus. Subtle.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#6563: Mar 3rd 2023 at 6:33:31 PM

[tup] to Adolphus.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#6564: Mar 3rd 2023 at 6:53:55 PM

Yes to the Hitler Captain Ersatz, Adolphus. Just watched Cocaine Bear, PM me for discussion if you really think there's someone.

Edited by Klavice on Mar 3rd 2023 at 6:54:15 AM

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#6565: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:02:25 PM

These get added to drafts tomorrow.

  • Wiseman is the manipulative advisor to the Black Moon Clan. Born in the 30th Century, he was once a regular human with dark powers, he decided to brainwash people into rebelling against Neo-Queen Serenity and restarted crime. Banished to Planet Nemesis after being defeated, he merged with that World. Now with the power of the Malefic Black Crystal at his disposal, he manipulated Prince Demande and his Black Moon Clan into doing his bidding, killing Rubeus when he revealed he knew too much and forcing Demande to Mercy Kill his own brother. He’d go on to brainwash Chibiusa into Black Lady and happily uses her in the final confrontation against the Sailor Senshi. During the final confrontation after Chibiusa is freed, he gleefully announces his intentions to destroy all life in the Solar System and beyond.
  • Professor Souichi Tomoe is one of the Co-Dragons of the Death Busters and answers to Pharaoh 90. Expelled from the Scientific Community for Inhumane Experiments, he’d side with an entity known as Pharaoh 90 and devour a Daimon Egg to completely swear loyalty after a lab accident killed his wife and critically injured him and his daughter. When Pharaoh 90 gives him Mistress 9’s Daimon Egg, he saves his daughter Hotaru’s life not out of care but for the sake of science. He implanted her Daimon Egg into Hotaru and would perform many experiments on her over the years, and only “cared” for her because he was curious to see what would happen when Mistress 9 took full possession of her. He would abduct people over the years and experiment on them with Daimon Eggs, and when he didn’t get the results he wanted, labelled them defects. Highly abusive towards his daughter, he also made it more than clear that he no longer loves his Wife. When the Sailor Guardians confront him, he turns himself into a full-fledged Daimon, declares himself a God and a Super Life-Form, and tries to kill them with no remorse. All because he was curious about what would happen if Pharaoh 90 got what he wanted.

Thoughts?

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:48:43 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#6566: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:02:33 PM

Yes to Adolphus...not to be confused with Adolpho, the evil mutant dolphin voiced by Mark Hamill from Loonatics Unleashed!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#6567: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:24:44 PM

Yes to Adolphus.

[up][up][up]I know the bear itself is a sure contender since it's a brutal and sadistic Serial Killer and the ending goes out of its way to denounce tbe bear's Freudian Excuse.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#6569: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:42:46 PM

For Tomoe’s writeup I’m trying to find a good place to add a text that states how it is clear he no longer cares for his wife.

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#6570: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:44:05 PM

[up][up][up]Without spoiling much I think the bear is hampered down from being an animal more akin to Indomitus Rex from Jurassic World and most of her kills being played for Black Comedy. I was actually thinking the Asshole Victim drug lord since he's indirectly responsible for the bears murders. But of course that begs the question as this is a black comedy if either the bear or Drug lord are played seriously enough.

Edited by Klavice on Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:46:11 AM

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#6571: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:44:42 PM

Found a place nevermind

But I do want to know what y’all think of the writeups.

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:51:30 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#6572: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:54:39 PM

[tup]Adolphus

Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:54:53 AM

It's Spooky Month!
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#6573: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:55:47 PM

Love the write-ups Sailor, great job on them and good work on the contributions as of late!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Zerukin Ninja Gamer Writer from Palmtree Panic Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Ninja Gamer Writer
#6575: Mar 3rd 2023 at 8:03:09 PM

Got my writeup done. Sorry for the delay. Work has been heavy this week.


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