Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
I saw the image: It's a good image, but is Emperor Joker actually a CM?
It's...weird. Like, yes, but he has that moment with Harley.
It's kinda the same situation as The Killing Joke.
Joker's a VERY unique case.
Edited by ACW on Mar 3rd 2023 at 5:27:52 AM
Yeah, Joker doesn't care about Harley in that comic... it's a cruel joke that she's not happy about at all. What does disqualify him is that he's openly wishing to wipe away the universe not out of pointless sadism, but because he doesn't think that any universe so painful as to create someone like himself should exist, thus sparing others "his pain". He's oddly sincere about it.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I have another quote to propose: a line about good ol' Michael Myers from Halloween Resurrectu- I mean Resurrection.
- "Michael Myers. Born October 19th, 1957. Killed his older sister October 31st, 1963. Killed three high school students, October 31st, 1978. Also killed three nurses and a paramedic, same night. Was believed to be dead, then killed four students, Hillcrest Academy, 1998. Has been missing, unheard of, last three years. Now he's back."
— Harold describing Michael Myers, Halloween: Resurrection
Joker's actions tend to get canonized more than his personality does. Just like Killing Joke - him paralyzing Barbara is canon to the main universe now, but his backstory in the comic either doesn't exist anymore or is actively contradicted. I'm very willing to bet the same thing happened with Emperor Joker.
Alrighty, time to finally get to my Closer baddie. This one is one of the more fucked up niches I've seen, so let's see if it's enough to push her over. Let's look at the villain of "Head Over Heels".
Who is Morgan Bloom? What does she do?
Morgan Bloom is the sole owner of Opulence Films, an adult film company. One of their more famous employees was a man named Chris Mundy, the Victim of the Week. About four months before the episode takes place, Morgan shipped in some girls from Brazil for a video shoot with Chris, and she was in such a rush that she didn't test them for HIV. One of them gave Chris HIV, and Morgan found out about it, but instead of getting him help, she had the lab they use fake the test by swapping them out with the boyfriend of a scientist who worked at the lab.
In the months after this, Chris unwittingly spread HIV to 12 girls who worked with him as well as his wife. However, when Chris tried to get a life insurance policy and the blood test they administered came back HIV positive, Chris realized the deception and came to the studio. He attacked Morgan's son Oscar, one of his directors, and Oscar killed him in self-defense. Morgan then helped him cover up the crime, including his corpse being mutilated and spread into multiple dumpsters around the city.
Luckily, Brenda (after a series of mishaps that include accusing Chris's grieving wife to her face of killing him while her two rambunctious babies are in the same room after oh so kindly telling her she has HIV - our hero ladies and gents) realizes that Oscar killed Chris and brings the two of them in. Morgan immediately tries to sell Oscar out and claim she had no idea of any of his crimes until after the fact, but Oscar ends up clearing up that everything that happened was Morgan's idea. After making it clear that intentionally letting Chris infect the girls with HIV counts as "Assault with intent to commit great bodily harm", Brenda sends her to prison for 13 counts, enough to put her away for life.
Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
She did send her son to get treatment for HIV after Chris attacked and bit him, but as soon as her life is at risk she tries to send him to prison for her crimes, so when the chips are down, her only priority is herself.
Is she heinous enough?
It's hard to find a more unique niche than "intentionally letting someone spread HIV to over a dozen people for the sake of profit". Even if you don't have the slightest bit of real-world knowledge to know how absolutely horrific HIV/AIDS is, Brenda (and thus the narrative) outright say that for all intents and purposes, Morgan held a gun to these girls' heads for the rest of their lives - to say nothing of the people that they must have unwittingly spread it to (we don't get a number there, but the beginning of the episode points out that they must have infected others if they're still in the industry). As we've seen, The Closer has its fair share of baddies, but spreading this horrible disease to this many innocent people? That's a heinous enough niche if I've ever seen it.
Final verdict?
Yep, what about you?
Morgan's an absolute easy Yes with the more fucked up niches you can find in a crime show, using her damn son as a HIV spreader because he makes her so much money is a...very unique crime, and she's the only person to do something like this in the series so yeah, she hits. Great work!
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Huh, I remember watching this episode—or at least the "gun to their heads" scene—back when I was... fuck, in middle school? Younger? Weird. Yes there.
Didn't you also say there would be a trio of school shooters, or am I thinking of something else?
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Mar 3rd 2023 at 6:37:46 AM
Hey guys, I'm still working but I wanted to pop in for a bit. It seems right now like Eithne and Tura-Kepek are going to pass, so now I need to ask: They get separate write ups, right, as individual characters who just happen to be working together? I've never done two characters at once before so I want to be sure.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallAh, the proposal is here
. I did them both at once, and they do share a majority of the same crimes, but their motives are ultimately different.
I guess I can try to do them as one writeup and see if it works out. Assuming that the vote doesn't massively swing to "no" in the next two days, of course; I know I have time.
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 3rd 2023 at 6:56:52 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

If it’s just for ImageLinks.Complete Monster—additional images that don’t go on pages—use the Locked Pages thread
.
If you want to actually suggest a page image for a CM subpage, start an Image Pickin’ thread if the page already has an image, or use the Image Suggestion Thread if it doesn’t.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Mar 3rd 2023 at 4:16:17 AM