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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#6376: Mar 2nd 2023 at 3:26:28 PM

Oh, my brother read that novel. [tup] to Lir.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#6378: Mar 2nd 2023 at 3:28:03 PM

[tup] to Lir.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6379: Mar 2nd 2023 at 3:30:25 PM

The strike went wild when Fai was fighting with Qin. And the powers that be decided to just make it move a certain way.

Since Fai was worried about his lover as he was dying. They also decided to reward him with an eternity in hell rather than the horrifying far worse fate that awaits Qin and Lir.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#6380: Mar 2nd 2023 at 3:30:39 PM

Yes to Jhudora, Charlie and Hendricks, Yeom, Ozai, the warden, Nehellenia, Mechikabura, and Lir.

Nah, the Partners never get beaten. They lock themselves away in another plane of existence to escape a bigger threat and subsequently have their influence severely limited, but they're still around and looking for a way back in.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#6381: Mar 2nd 2023 at 3:32:00 PM

[up][up]WORSE fate? surprised What's worse than eternity in Hell?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6382: Mar 2nd 2023 at 3:33:00 PM

That part is left unknown

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6383: Mar 2nd 2023 at 3:40:50 PM

ACW, curb the questions please. Yes to lir

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 2nd 2023 at 3:48:31 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
CookieMonster69 Since: Feb, 2019
#6386: Mar 2nd 2023 at 4:36:18 PM

I've been kinda busy so I haven't done any of these in a while but here's a quick one.

What is the work?

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen is a video game adaptation of the movie with the same name for the Nintendo DS. There are 2 versions of it: an Autobot campaign and a Decepticon one.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

The Fallen is one of the original Primes who became the first Decepticon after murdering his brothers and starting the Great War on Cybertron. After Cybertron was devastated by the war, The Fallen sent Megatron to retrieve the Allspark on Earth, which ultimately lead to its destruction. Seeking to obtain a surviving shard of the Allspark, The Fallen sent his troops on an invasion across the globe, threatening to devastate both human military bases and civilian cities, all so that he can revive Megatron to do his bidding. The Fallen's ultimate goal is to activate the Star Harvester to harness the power of Earth's sun so he can make a Decepticon army powerful enough to conquer the universe, while destroying all life on the planet in the process.

In the Autobot version, he is defeated. But in the Decepticon version, he wins and presumably succeeds in his goals.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

None. He is a Bad Boss who threatens to kill his own men if they fail and even sends the player's character to a fight where he expects them to die. He also doesn't have any real loyalty to Megatron and gladly replaces him once he finds a better Decepticon leader.

The only other argument I can think of is that he's too similar to the film version but since that rule is no longer valid, this should be ok.

Are they bad enough?

He's the Big Bad so he pretty much sets the heinous standard.

Final verdict?

I think he's a [tup]

227someguy I hate spoilers Since: Apr, 2017
I hate spoilers
#6387: Mar 2nd 2023 at 4:40:19 PM

[up] You said "that rule is no longer valid", but I was told on this forum that it was never a rule. Does this mean we can propose certain characters in Former Complete Monsters?

Also, [tup] to the Fallen.

Everyone look at my sandbox
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6388: Mar 2nd 2023 at 4:42:05 PM

Wasn't the issue with these when they came up beforr Is that they had no gravitas whatsoever ?

I remember we shot down a bunch of these game tie ins.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CookieMonster69 Since: Feb, 2019
#6389: Mar 2nd 2023 at 4:43:57 PM

Other than some unrelated bickering between the characters, it didn't seem too comedic to me.

Edited by CookieMonster69 on Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:36:25 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6390: Mar 2nd 2023 at 4:45:46 PM

No the issue was this game is so bare bones. We only see just random city destruction. With no real impact felt of like anything.

Found it

My slight issue with these Transformers candidates, primarily the DS ones...these games are so low budget that there's really not a lot of stock put into people dying. I played several of these games years ago and as far as I recall, except for military personnel, things like "Starscream destroys several buildings" are not portrayed as having actual people inside. Like yes you can obviously make that conclusion, and the Autobots might say "We have to save the city!", but there's no signs of people screaming inside as they die, no animations of people running around, it's literally just portrayed as the Decepticons walking up, shooting the buildings, and the buildings crumbling.

And as for the Fallen, his destruction of Earth and saying that he "starts a bloody conquest" is kind of pushing it, seeing as it isn't even onscreen or given that amount of detail. As soon as you beat Optimus, the credits start rolling and the Fallen just has a monologue where he says "With the power of the Sun Harvester and destruction of Earth, nothing stands in our way from conquering the galaxy!" I dunno, I just feel like these actions don't have the proper "weight" to them given that there's no real portrayal of victims here, just "Oh no, they're destroying the city, smashing buildings and stuff

Honestly no their.

This sounds like it totally fails the visibility rule. Where the actions should have impact for someone to actually count.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 2nd 2023 at 4:58:17 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#6391: Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:21:57 PM

So this was a character I was gonna propose earlier but decided to do it later once we slowed down a bit and it seems like the time is right. I last talk about Grandia III and propose Grau the traitorious adviser of the Big Bad with powerhungry ambitions, and here were gonna be talking about the entity Grau had planned to use to bring about his ambition. I give you Xorn.

Who is Xorn and what does he do?

The story of Grandia III about Yuki, a would-be pilot seeking to create his own place and fly the skies that got involve in an battle involving the Guardians, ancient beings who watch over the world, when he ended up saving a mysterious woman named Alfina. It turns out that Alfina's brother Emelious is trying to kill all the Guardians and summon something something sinister by using Alfina's unique power as a communicator to the Guardians. Unsurprisingly it's the figure of destruction mentioned in the game's history and was talked about throughout the game, Xorn.

Xorn is one of the original 12 Guardians who watch over the world and kept the balance of it's forces, however Xorn later on betrayed the other Guardians and tried to kill them all due to his deep resentment towards love, believing it to be the source of all pain, with his ultimate goal being to assimilate all life into himself and create a world into a lifeless oblivion. However he ends up being stopped by the remaining Guardians who teamed up, but came at a great cost with only 4 surviving Guardians (5 but one is technically undead) and the Verse Realm left into a barren world of glass with the world permanently damage and most of the population killed Xorn was not even killed, just torn to pieces and sealed off until his return many years later.

When Emelious went into a journey to find his own calling due to the pressure of being Communicator and feeling incomplete due to having to share his power with Alfina, he ended up stumbling upon the Verse Realm and later found a shard of Xorn who stabbed him to slowly corrupt and control him. With a puppet in his disposal, Xorn used Emelious to kill the other Guardians with the Godkiller and form his own personal squad to plan out his resurrection, causing countless deaths and nearly destroying the world the game takes place like he did to the Verse Realm.

By the time Xorn has fully returned, he dispose all his pawns and began turning the world into the lifeless void he wanted by turning everything into brittle glasslike and planning to unleash ultimate destruction upon the world like he did to the Verse Realm, however at this point Emelious manage to break through his control and use the Godkiller against him. While it didn't work and Emelious was killed, it weakened Xorn enough to be defeated Yuki and Alfina's group much to his surprise and a good taste of irony after he taunted them for Emelious defeat calling his love for Alfina a weakness that got him killed. This ends up permanently killing the fallen Guardian and freeing the world from his grasp and avenging the Verse Realm.

How bad is he is?

He destroyed an entire world once and nearly destroyed another, by sucking the literal life of both worlds and the people living in it, with his initial reign of chaos and his tendrils turning everything into brittle glass leaving people left as lifeless glass statues and the land a beautifully lifeless and colorless world.

Now when comparing to other baddies in the series, he can be comparable to Valmar as both are evil forces of destruction. However while both are quiet similar, there's enough difference to distinguish one over the other. Valmar was a former human turned monster who wanted to turn the world in a hellhole full of monsters due to being mad with his power, while Xorn is a powerful entity who hated love and wanted to turn the world into a lifeless void by turning everything into lifeless glass and actually manage to destroy one world and almost another.

I think Xorn is still able to carve his own unique niche.

Any redeeming qualities?

Nada, his so called proclamation love is the source of all hatred and suffering doesn't make him a twisted well-intentional extremist considering he still take great glee with his actions and comes off more as nihilistic then anything well-meaning. And while Xorn doesn't really talk until the very end, dude was literally split into multiple pieces so he didn't even have a mouth, we do see enough of him from his actions to the few scenes he talks when he's complete that's he a nasty piece of work.

Final Verdict:

I say with his unique methods of destruction and the scale he reaches, he's a keeper. Not to interesting but still qualifies.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#6392: Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:23:34 PM

Sure to Xorn, no to the Fallen and yes to Lir (You weren't lying there, good find!)

CookieMonster69 Since: Feb, 2019
#6393: Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:28:08 PM

Ok sorry. I would not have proposed it if I knew it was already discussed in the past.

[tup] to Xorn

Edited by CookieMonster69 on Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:28:32 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#6394: Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:37:23 PM

[up] No problem at all with that nor need to apologize, you made a good effort and while he may not count you obviously know what the trope is looking for and I'm sure you'll bring forth other potentials! smile

Yes to Xorn and Lir!

Edited by Ravok on Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:37:38 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
CookieMonster69 Since: Feb, 2019
#6396: Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:53:21 PM

@Ravok Thanks. BTW, I'm still in the process of finishing Galaxy Force but you can have it back, if you want. Since I'm not sure when I can finish it.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#6397: Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:54:13 PM

[tup] The Xorn who is not the treacherous X-Man (who is also awful but has agency issues).

  • Enola Holmes 2:
    • Viscount Charles McIntyre is Chancellor of the Exchequer and the mastermind of a conspiracy at the Lyon Matchstick Factory, in which he holds a large stake, to save money by switching the incendiary agent in the matches from red phosphorus to white, despite knowing that the latter type is a deadly carcinogen. Already extremely rich himself, McIntyre condemns hundreds of workers to agonizing deaths from cancer to fatten his pockets a bit more, and even destroys documents implicating him in front of multiple witnesses while mocking them over their "lack" of proof.
    • Superintendent Grail is a high-ranking and horrifically corrupt London Police official. Accepting bribes from Mira Troy to keep the Lyon Factory conspiracy secret, Grail becomes an assassin of witnesses and would-be whistleblowers, his favorite method of dispatch being throat-slitting. When Enola comes close to unmasking his role in the plot, he sees to it that she is arrested for one of his own murders, then pays off prison guards to have her killed on the inside. After Enola escapes, Grail kills the factory owner's son and attempts to massacre Enola and all the other remaining witnesses, including a little girl, in a final showdown.

carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#6398: Mar 2nd 2023 at 5:55:08 PM

That means my candidates are probably right out. Spellstone has, like, ZERO budget invested in cutscenes. The most you really get is a wall of text, a couple dialogue portraits saying things, and it's off to the card battle gameplay. Can't really say there's "visibility" unless you count the game as a work of literature instead.

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#6399: Mar 2nd 2023 at 6:25:23 PM

Yes to Lir and Xorn.

[up]I got a candidate up from Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft with essentially the same premise so your candidates should be worth a discussion.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Mar 2nd 2023 at 6:25:55 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#6400: Mar 2nd 2023 at 7:12:56 PM

Here is another potential candidate that has been on my mind for some time. I just decided to go for it and do 2 today due to being bored as hell right now. It's short but get's straight to the point right now. So let's talk about him, shall we?

What's The Work

High School Fleet: The Movie is an anime film that takes place three months after the original series ended. It follows Akeno Misaki who decides to enroll in the Yokosuka Girls' Marine High School so she can become one of the highly regarded Blue Mermaids. However, tragedy strikes when the Pirate Leader and his gang decide to invade and cause danger so it's their job to stop his plan.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

The Pirate Leader is the main antagonist of High School Fleet: The Movie. He was first seen with Susan in the alleyway, duping the young girl into thinking he would help her find her missing father so he could further his evil plan and have someone assist him. He and his crew kidnap the people in possession of the purification plant before threatening to build the seafort and kill all Japanese.

He and his crew then attempt to use the Seaford, but are stopped by Misaki, her friends, and the Blue Mermaids when they all come into contact. Finally, The Pirate Leader is defeated before being apprehended for all of his crimes.

Mitigating Factors

None that I can find. Unlike other villains, he is fully aware of his heinous actions and yet takes great sadism toward them while also showing zero care toward anyone he encountered but himself. Overall he has zero redeeming qualities to his character.

Heinous Standard

The series has a very low standard but the Pirate Leader easily stands out for being the most heinous villain in the entire film. He attempts to wipe out all Japanese by using the seafort which is considered genocide, causing many casualties with it while also being willing to have millions murdered in Yokosuka and many other cities as a whole. This is all of his plans succeeded. It's safe to say he passes with no problem.

Final Verdict

I'll leave it up to you guys.

Edited by Echidna on Mar 2nd 2023 at 10:21:06 AM


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