TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Complete Monster Proposal Thread

Go To

Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#57476: Sep 21st 2024 at 4:02:08 PM

Yeah amidst hundreds of episodes and dozens and dozens of generic single digit murders, corporate theft, and the dreaded bank robberies, we were very selective of "mass murder" or "particularly sadistic" nutbars. Hell there's several who we didn't propose even though in anything else they'd count, precisely because the dozen+ who do count are so much worse.

Edited by Ravok on Sep 21st 2024 at 4:15:14 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#57477: Sep 21st 2024 at 4:24:54 PM

After Phelous' review of it, decided to check on this animated mockbuster and give a shot to it's villain

What's the Work?

The Legend of Atlantis is an animated movie from Golden Film, which was one of it's last releases before the company went dormant. As with many others of it, it's a cash in on Atlantis: The Lost Empire and the plot follows (as written from the DVD box) Princess Elan in the lost city of Atlantis, who has discovered a plot from her royal family's advisor Belial to take over the city.

Full movie can be watched here:

My candidate is ofcourse Belial.

Who is Belial?

A treacherous advisor to the King Altar and Queen Merin, Belial introduced presumably dreaming of conquest before he was interrupted by Gryphos, a talking animal creture, whom he captured to force him to reveal the secret of the ancients to him (in a dungeon, where a few skeletons are kept in chains, which are indicated and somewhat confirmed to be Belial's victims). As Gryphos revealed to him the existance of four magic crystals, which control the elements of nature, Belial is set on a quest to find them, easily paying a dude to get him crystal of air, as he also tries to convince King Altar to allow mining on Far Shore village, so he could secretly get the Earth crystal.

Threatening to drop Gryphos to Eternal Flame, leading to Gryphos to reveal to him that he can use it with four magic crystals to get absolute power. Elan saw this and reported it to her mother, who in a very stupid moment decided to ignore it and secretly go collect crystals herself, which leads to Belial using crystal of air to kill her (13:05 time mark) and use it to convince King Altar to give him authority to construct a moving glass dome around the city to cover it at dawn to "keep people of Atlantis safe".

Creepily trying to hit on the princess, Belial discovers that she is secretly having meeting with Tera, the man from Far Shore (people he hates), as he tried to find the crystal of water there, which leads to angry Belial using crystal of Earth to unleash lava upon the village of Far Shore, which endangered everyone (and it was shown to destroy the entire village and people are said to have been heavily injured. Time Mark for destruction 29:56).

Kidnapping Elan to lure Tera to him to try to force him to reveal the location of crystal of water to him, Belial has Tera captured and delivered to his dungeon. When Tera reveal that he doesn't know, Belial trapped his soul in his crystal, openly stating that he plans to leave Tera's soul there for eternity, as his body will rot (time mark 36:30). Belial openly states that he wants to use power of the crystals to turn everyone into his slave, before trying to force Elan to be his bride, being very open that he may consider killing her if she refuses.

Tracking down Elan, as she escaped his dungeon and got the final crystal, crystal of water, Belial tied her up with the king, before he used the power of the crystals to turn himself into a knock-off Genie Jafar demon and unleashing destruction upon Atlantis (47:10 time mark), before Elan tricked him into showing off his powers and unleashing all elements upon the city, but since he can't turn them off, they destroyed him, when he attempted to control them, which also left the city in ruins.

Mitigating Qualities?

While there are some humorous moments with him, like his cartoony abuse of Gryphos, his murder of the Queen, destruction of Far Shore and the kingdom played seriously enough, i think.

Otherwise, he has no redeeming qualities.

Heinousness?

While this is mockbuster cartoon, death is brought up here enough and, i think, him unleashing lava upon Far Shore is treated as deadly event, that endangered the lives of everyone there, the destruction of Atlantis showed one man being crushed beneath a pillar, his murder of the Queen and his decision to trap Tera's soul in the crystal for eternity and leave his body to rot is chulling enough for a cartoon, that i decided to propose him. Also skeletons in chains in his cave are indicated to be his victims, so there is adiditional factor i suppose.

Conclusion?

What do you think?

Azyat Big Bad Wannabe from Medium-Sized Polish City (Apprentice) Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Big Bad Wannabe
#57478: Sep 21st 2024 at 4:29:06 PM

Sounds bad enough for me. [tup] to Belial.

Fine. Have it your way. Come on in. The Doctor will see you now.
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#57480: Sep 21st 2024 at 4:34:57 PM

[tup]Belial

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#57481: Sep 21st 2024 at 4:41:33 PM

[tup] to Belial.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#57482: Sep 21st 2024 at 4:47:36 PM

[tup] Belial.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#57483: Sep 21st 2024 at 4:49:35 PM

[tup] to Belial. I love how this proposal came a day after Phelous' review of this movie. He appears bad enough and dignity isn't a requirement here.

Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#57485: Sep 21st 2024 at 5:20:36 PM

[tup]Belial, Behemoth, Beelzebub, Asmodeus, Satanas, Lucifer (the first in that list anyway)

[tup]Marsland

Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 21st 2024 at 5:24:47 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#57487: Sep 21st 2024 at 6:04:13 PM

[tup] Belial x Marsland

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
moctezuma2000 Since: Sep, 2018
#57489: Sep 21st 2024 at 6:56:20 PM

What's the work?

100 Rifles is a western film about an American detective hunting and then reluctantly joining a indigenous Mexican revolutionary.

Who is the candidate? What have they done?

General Verdugo is a Mexican Army official who aims to rid the indigenous Yaqui people from Sonora, Mexico by any means (his preferred method being genocide). He opens the movie by cruelly executing a prisoner of war in front of his daughter Sarita, mocking that he died over a rifle, before lassoing the woman and taking her captive. When African-American detective Lyedecker heads into town searching for Joe Herrera, a half-Yaqui/half-Alabamian bank robber who stole $6,000 from a bank in Arizona, he witnesses Verdugo publicly kill 3 Yaqui with one shot of his handgun, claiming that "bullets are valuable while [their lives] are not", horrifying railroad owner Steven Grimes who wants no part in his cruelty. As another pair of natives are about to be killed, Joe tries causing a distraction for them to escape, but Verdugo's troops shoot them dead as they run and Herrera is captured. Before Joe can be finished off, Lyedecker interrupts the general, who threatens to kill the detective before he reveals his badge. The duo interrogate Joe for where the money is, Verdugo leaving to investigate his hotel room, while Joe reveals to the cop it was spent on buying 100 rifles for the Yaqui resistance.

The two make a daring escape from Mexican troopers on horseback, losing el general in the desert, but he eventually catches up and makes them march back to town with their hands cuffed to a horse. Revealing he confiscated the rifles by skinning the arms dealers alive, Verdugo chains them to a tree stump while conversing with lieutenant Franz von Klemme, who presses Joe for when more rifles are to be shipped, but he denies such a thing is coming.

Verdugo's forces stop at the village, where they are putting suspected rebels to a firing squad. Before Joe and Lydecker have their turn, an escaped Sarita interrupts leading an attack, during which Lyedecker shoots Verdugo in the arm, followed by the group fleeing to a Yaqui settlement with the guns retrieved. Soldiers shortly arrive to burn the place down, killing anyone they can while taking children hostage in exchange for the guns, leading the resistance to free their numbers by assaulting a prison. In response, Verdugo exclaims that he wants Lydecker and the others' heads on a stick for the public to see.

The rebels mount a massive offensive on an army train, during which Grimes (having been captured by the freedom fighters) slips away to report before Verdugo, who claims he should be shot for the crime of getting unwittingly abducted, but nevertheless heeds his warning that the hijacked train will be used to attack his base. Final Battle ensues, Sarita dies in the crossfire, and Lydecker shoots the general's horse allowing the rebels to anticlimactically beat/hack Verdugo to death.

Mitigating factors?

He shows no respect for his lieutenant, which results in Franz ditching his ass during the final battle, and is consistently rude to Grimes as well, rebuking him whenever he tries showing the heroes mercy. Sarita mentions he once had a wife in a throwaway line, but the man himself never references or invokes her, so it is unlikely he cares, especially since he is seen enjoying other women with no problem.

Heinous standards?

Verdugo's campaign massacres dozens of native Mexican people on-screen. There is no other competition in the movie.

Final Verdict?

Simple keeper it seems

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#57490: Sep 21st 2024 at 7:15:19 PM

Woke up to some awful news... condolensces Bullman, sorry about your loss.

[tup] Shep, Belial, Verdugo

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#57491: Sep 21st 2024 at 7:53:48 PM

Yes to Verdugo, Belial and Marsland.

I listened to the final novel in the Harley Quinn trilogy on Audible (Harley Quinn Redemption, by Rachel Allen), which presents the Harley Quinn story as a YA Feminist Revenge story where Harley and her allies deal out justice to horrible men who abuse women. I have already covered the first book that dealt with a rapist professor and the second book that dealt with Scarecrow enabling this rapist professor, experimenting on Arkham Asylum inmates, including non-violent ones and making mind control for an unknown party. Who could possibly measure up in this third book? You will soon see and it's not who you may think it is....

Who is the Dollmaker? What has he done?

Anton AKA The Dollmaker is the one Scarecrow was making mind control chips for. The Dollmaker is a starving artist who suffers from his work, but not as much as the subjects of his art. The Dollmaker makes dolls and makes people into dolls. Yes, Dollmaker kidnaps people and transforms them into works of art, taking them to a giant industrial complex he bought called The Tower. Dollmaker has a machine that transforms people by altering their genes into whatever twisted masterpieces he wants. For example, Dollmaker transforms a young woman into a Firefly-like character, where her face is burnt and a flame thrower is grafted onto her arm. Also, not all the people who undergo this process survive it. Some of them die in agony and don't survive the process. Others die soon after, like an early''creation'' with bird wings who died when she tried to fly and her wings didn't work.

The Dollmaker will turn anything into art, women, men, and children. The Dollmaker usually kidnaps young women, but one time the Dollmaker kidnaps a 7-year-old girl named Fallen and transforms her into a squid monster. Dollmaker also had Fallen kill a man and eat him, with the man in constant pain while this happened.

While Dollmaker can transform peoples' bodies, the fact that they would still have free will is a problem for him, so he decides to turn to a partner to help him control his masterpieces. And who knows how to warp the human brain better than Jervis Tetch, the Mad Hatter? Mad Hatter is an aging serial killer who allies himself with Dollmaker, providing mind-control devices to Dollmaker that he uses to control his creations and in exchange, Dollmaker transforms some of the women he kidnaps copies of Mad Hatter's dead sister, Alice. So in addition to transforming his victims' bodies, Dollmaker robs them of their free will as well.

After Harley helps take down the Scarecrow, Dollmaker becomes obsessed with her, wanting to make Harley her creative muse and his ultimate masterpiece. Dollmaker keeps on sending her dolls of the women he kidnaps and creepy letters. Dollmaker kidnaps Harley's friend Stella Watkins, who was being treated at Arkham, to force Harley to surrender to him. Dollmaker meets Harley at the Gotham Pride festival and threatens to spray Harley's girlfriend with weed killer if she doesn't surrender. Dollmaker manages to knock out Harley, Poison Ivy and her other allies and takes Harley to the Tower. The Dollmaker plans to auction off his various ''creations'' to the highest bidders and wants to transform Harley at the auction, in order to stroke his ego. The Dollmaker tries to put a mind-control chip in Harley, but Lenore, one of Dollmaker's mind-controlled pawns is able to defy her programming enough to put a dead chip into Harley. At the auction, Dollmaker has one of the women he transformed kill a man on stage better sell her. Anyway, Harley and her allies are able to free all the people who are mind-controlled and defeat the Dollmaker, and the Dollmaker is arrested.

Is he heinious by the standards of the work?

These books are rather dark, it features a rapist professor and Scarecrow gave the rapist professor the fear gas he uses to victimize women, experiments on inmates in Arkham and made mind-control chips for Dollmaker. Dollmaker's partner the Mad Hatter is a creepy Serial killer, for years he mind controlled people and made them kill each other at ''tea parties'' he set up across the city, including making a family kill each other with power tools and often abuses the various Alices Dollmaker creates for him. But Dollmaker kidnaps dozens of people, including a child, performs dangerous surgeries on them, takes away their free will and tries to sell them to the highest bidder. I think all of that is bad enough to count.

Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?

I don't think so, he treats everyone like objects rather than people. Unlike say Professor Pyg, who thinks he is doing a good thing to the people he alters, Dollmaker is an egomaniac who has no regard for people he changes, he harms people because he thinks his artistic vision is more important than human life.

Dollmaker and Mad Hatter are allies of convenience and don't like each other. Dollmaker's obsession with Harley comes off as a creepy Serial Killer obsession with her rather than love.

Dollmaker whines that he was a normal kid before his artistic ambitions were crushed and that it's hard for a white man to make it as an artist, but all of this self-serving BS that makes him seem like a self-centred, sexist psychopath.

Final Verdict?

Keep him.

Edited by Overlord on Sep 21st 2024 at 8:06:58 AM

Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#57493: Sep 21st 2024 at 7:56:39 PM

[tup] Bellial and [tup] Dollmaker.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#57495: Sep 21st 2024 at 8:06:57 PM

[tup] for Marsland, Belial, Verdugo, and Dollmaker.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
PeterVanHelsing Since: Sep, 2019
#57496: Sep 21st 2024 at 8:19:10 PM

[tup] Belial

I was actually considering proposing him myself...

coolmaneditor Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
#57497: Sep 21st 2024 at 8:21:26 PM

Yes to Verdugo, Dollmaker...

...and Belial. Love a CM from a less-than-high-quality source.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#57498: Sep 21st 2024 at 8:45:51 PM

Yes to Belial and Dollmaker

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
TheJokster22 Logical from Down Unda Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Logical
#57499: Sep 21st 2024 at 9:06:37 PM

[tup] Dollmaker, Belial, the Megatrons and Verdugo


Total posts: 60,500
Top