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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#57176: Sep 20th 2024 at 5:01:53 AM

[tup] Zadornov

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
Revenant30 Since: Sep, 2023
#57178: Sep 20th 2024 at 5:15:35 AM

[tup] Zadornov

What do you think about this quote ? I don't know if I proposed it before.

Older Will: The spiders didn't kill the girls. It was you. I just didn't let myself see it. You kept me alive because you needed me. Because I could build this for you.
Spider Smith: Poor, poor boy. Did you think that I would let you go? After all that I have become? Look at me. I am no mere man. I am a god. Within these eggsacks lives a monster race of spiders. We shall descend upon helpless Earth. An entire planet on which to rule. An entire planet on which to feed! Time to die, *son*.
Older Will: I'm not your son!
Spider Smith: Goodbye.

Edited by Revenant30 on Sep 20th 2024 at 5:25:22 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#57179: Sep 20th 2024 at 5:18:01 AM

Yes to Metal Gear and Code Geass baddies

Was The Crow reboot movie discussed here? I believe someone did grabbed it, but no one talked about it, after it was released, from what i remember?

The-Omniscient-Dex Just call me Jason, I suppose from Classified (Terrible Twos) Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
Just call me Jason, I suppose
#57180: Sep 20th 2024 at 5:32:50 AM

Characters from works that don't have a page on This Very Wiki can still proposed, right?

I'm much too lazy to come up with a caption.
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#57181: Sep 20th 2024 at 5:38:30 AM

[tup] Smith quote

[up] Yes

Edited by EmperorGeode on Sep 20th 2024 at 5:39:16 AM

carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#57182: Sep 20th 2024 at 5:57:40 AM

Should I add the Goyan quote to the drafts?

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#57183: Sep 20th 2024 at 6:17:14 AM

[up]Sure.

[up][up][up]Definitely. Hell, my very first successful proposal was from a work without a page here.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#57185: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:08:08 AM

It's Showtime!

What is the work?

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice is a 2024 fantasy horror comedy film and the sequel to the 1988 film Beetlejuice directed by Tim Burton. Burton returns to direct from a screenplay by Alfred Gough and Miles Millar, and Danny Elfman returns as composer. Michael Keaton, Winona Ryder, and Catherine O'Hara reprise their roles from the original film, joined by newcomers Jenna Ortega, Justin Theroux, Monica Bellucci, Burn Gorman, Arthur Conti, Santiago Cabrera, and Willem Dafoe.

When her father's funeral brings Lydia Deetz (Ryder), her stepmother Delia (O'Hara), and her daughter Astrid (Ortega) back to the sleepy town of Winter River, it isn't long before the portal to the afterlife is reopened...and Astrid ends up lost on the other side. Now Lydia must do the unthinkable: join forces with a certain "bio-exorcist" (Keaton) from her youth to save her daughter and set things right. But can Betelgeuse be trusted—especially when he's trying to avoid Delores (Bellucci), his soul-sucking witch of an ex-wife with a bone to pick?

Who is Delores LaVerge and what has she done?

Delores was the leader of a cult around the time of the Black Death. She and her cult sought immortality by murdering people and harvesting their souls. It was Delores who was responsible for Betelgeuse’s death. She seduced, married and then poisoned him on their wedding night. He responded by chopping her into pieces. In the afterlife, her remains were sealed away in separate crates but one of them is accidentally opened and she reassembles herself. She spends most of the movie searching for Betelgeuse and sucking the souls of whomever she comes across. When she finally confronts Betelgeuse, he directs a sandworm to swallow her.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

None. Delores never truly loved Betelgeuse and was only interested in claiming his soul to help her achieve immortality. She was probably not pleased about being hacked to death but given that she is also a murderer, we are not meant to sympathize with her.

Is she bad enough?

Beetlejuice is a comedy-horror franchise so most acts of villainy portrayed therein are Played for Laughs but Delores is an exception. She takes the souls of three innocent victims (a janitor, a dry cleaner and Betelgeuse’s assistant Bob) who are left as nothing more than empty husks of flesh when she is done with them. We feel especially sorry for Bob who is just a shrunken head doing his job. Delores demands he tell her where Betelgeuse is and removes the stitches from his mouth but before he can utter a word, she sucks up his soul. She does all this without so much as a hint of hesitation, pity or remorse. What’s worse is that sucking the soul of a dead person makes them Deader than Dead, meaning they can never come back.

Delores’ only real competition is the character of Jeremy Frazier from the same film. However, he just killed his parents and they’re still hanging around as ghosts. In Delores’ case, it’s implied she had many more victims before she ever met Betelgeuse.

Final verdict?

Delores stands out as the most evil character in the entire franchise and is therefore worthy of consideration as a Complete Monster.

rosewood47 from A Padded Cell (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#57186: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:14:27 AM

[tup] Huey, whom I never understood why he didn't count before

Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#57187: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:27:28 AM

I'm not sure on Delores. Leaning [tdown]

Even if she's more serious, she's only got one more victim than Jeremy, and Beetlejuice himself also kills a bunch of social media influencers by sucking them into their phones. Those murders are also adding to the heinous standard even if they're played more comically

How heavy are the implications that she has more victims?

Edited by Bozzy on Sep 20th 2024 at 7:30:11 AM

Evanpotter09 Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#57188: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:29:41 AM

It's just one line where Betelgeuse says she was "the leader of a soul sucking death cult" before she killed him. Leaning towards a [tdown]

What, like it's hard?
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#57189: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:29:45 AM

They say she was running the soul-sucking cult in the flashback so more than 3 victims at the bare minimum

going to abstain on Delores though

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Sep 20th 2024 at 7:30:09 AM

Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#57190: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:31:25 AM

[up] Do we actually see her doing anything as a cult leader?

LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#57191: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:32:42 AM

[up][up][up] It's unclear if the influencers are dead or just temporarily trapped. And even if they are dead, the moment is Played for Laughs unlike what Delores does.

Evanpotter09 Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#57192: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:33:01 AM

We see her preparing to kill Betelgeuse but not anything else.

What, like it's hard?
Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#57193: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:37:13 AM

It being Played for Laughs doesn't change that it adds to the heinous standard since it's a horror-comedy, with emphasis on the latter

[tdown] to Delores. She doesn't reach the baseline imo

LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#57194: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:39:28 AM

[up] Doesn't the baseline change depending on the heinousness standard of the work?

Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#57195: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:41:08 AM

[up] I think that ruling is only for villains from movies aimed at children like Bill Sykes and Scroop. Beetlejuice skews moreso all-ages enjoyment, so Delores has to reach the general baseline, which she doesn't

LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#57196: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:42:41 AM

[up] Does the general baseline say how many victims there have to be?

Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#57197: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:44:27 AM

[tup]Lord Norland, Sir Christoph Scissorman, Vladimir Zadornov(he has one of the most ridiculous and funny deaths. To humiliate yourself like that, you have to try. Even feel sorry for him) and heartfelt yes to Dr. Huey. It is very nice to see such vile and disgusting monsters finally deservedly stand up. Great job! How many more villains are planned?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#57198: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:45:57 AM

Yeah, I feel like while Delores is bad, she doesn't do much to really breach the franchise's heinous standard. We don't even get to see her cult while she was alive. [tdown] to her.

It's Spooky Month!
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#57199: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:48:28 AM

switching to [tdown] Delores

even ignoring amount of kills she just lacks omppf to her crimes

FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#57200: Sep 20th 2024 at 7:50:02 AM

[tdown] Delores for the same reason Jeff Fecalman doesn’t keep and also because there’s just too much Offstage Villainy to stand out.

Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Sep 20th 2024 at 10:52:22 AM

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they

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