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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#57101: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:30:08 PM

[tup] Skearhead; if he was supposedly too amoral to be a CM, why did he wait 300 years to infect the Empress when he did Cure Sky in just an instant? Just ask the season 5 part of the Aku EP.

Also [tup] Huey Lewis and the Notorious M.C.P.! With all these new keepers, who knew it’s hip to be bad?

Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Sep 19th 2024 at 9:56:59 AM

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#57102: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:30:55 PM

Yes to the MCP, Huey and I’m fine with the quote. We cool if I start my Roze posts btw?

Edited by PassingThrough on Sep 19th 2024 at 8:34:57 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#57104: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:34:16 PM

The latest Code Geass series. I'm cool with it.

[tup] for Skearhead.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#57105: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:37:09 PM

What's with "The skies have cleared"?

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#57106: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:37:40 PM

Hell fucking yes to Huey. I always felt he counted deep down. Huey was an absolute cowardly scumbag who was more than willing to sacrifice his friends to save his skin and absolutely showed no care for his son, using him as a test subject and shown no care towards poor him for getting molested by his own mother, with Huey going so far as to try to spitefully take Emma with him to the grace. Excellent job here, Ravok!

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#57107: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:38:15 PM

[up][up]

ignore this, question was answered by Cyn.

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Sep 19th 2024 at 7:48:48 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#57108: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:39:11 PM

Cheers there, I'll get this and my next out of the way to clear room for my partner in crime Rav!

Here comes the biggest CM potential the whole franchise has brought yet...

What's the work?

Code Geass: Rozé of the Recapture is the latest entry in the franchise. Seven years after the events of the film trilogy the newfound Republic of Britannia flourishes under Nunally's kindness and the Geass-controlled Schneizel's watchful eye. Unfortunately, a group of fascist terrorists have struck out to revive the Holy Britannian Empire, dubbing themselves "Neo-Britannia" and manage to conquer Japan, where they create a base behind the shields of Hokkaido, oppressing the Japanese citizens while trying to strengthen themselves.

Ostensibly led by the late-Emperor Charles' young son Callis, it's really the mysterious aristocrat Lord Norland von Lunebelg, a man rightfully later called "the enemy of humanity" heading the faction.

Who is Norland? What has he done?

A thoroughly sociopathic rewrite of Rau Le Creuset, Norland is an ice-cold psychopath (seemingly) determined to revive the Empire. To this end he adopts the young Ash Phoenix to raise as a killing machine, reluctantly taking Ash's physically weak younger brother Nichol in due to the former's begging. Using Ash to commit dozens of assassinations against rival, more peaceful Britannians, when Ash's hesitation leads to a messy cleanup due to encountering another orphan he and Nichol had been raised with, Norland ignores Ash's pleading for forgiveness, only relenting when Nicol takes the blame to fucking skewer the little pre-teen with swords, coldly telling him he'll never have to worry about holding his brother back again. He then has Ash thrown in prison to rot for trying to assassinate him in response to Nichol's death and keeps the Japanese Prime Minister Jugo Sumeragi imprisoned until the moment Callis can be prepared as Puppet King, leaking news of his execution to discreetly justify the murder of the kindly Jugo and one guard loyal to him, while Ash goes on the run.

Norland only grows worse with time, leading his faction in the conquest of Hokkaido where his subordinates are given free reign to terrorize the Japanese and Norland responds to any problems with violence, at one point slaughtering a peace delegation sent and bloodily killing the Black Knights who try to penetrate his territory. After deeming the captive half-Japanese half-Britannian Princess Sayaka Sumeragi (actually her friend disguised as her) would make a better face for his regime, he swiftly murder Callis to put the crown on her. He also repeats his cruelty amongst his ranking troops, forcing one to kill himself for failure on a single mission.

Dispatching his bloodthirsty subordinate Divock to launch the F.L.E.I.J.A. missiles on a Japanese ghetto in the name of flushing out terrorists, the mission goes completely sideways thanks to the intervention of the heroes, Divock trying to madly kill himself with the last FLEIJA to please his cruel lord until Norland's right hand Christoph Scissorman reveals the true purpose of the mission was to disable the Damocles, Norland utterly apathetic to the chaos while Christoph destroys the flying fortress to prevent the Seven Stars freedom fighters from reclaiming it.

When Christoph captures heroine Rozé—really the real Sakuya Sumeragi—Norland uses his subordinate's intel to wipe out as many of the resistance fighters' bases as he can. After killing most of them, he leaves Sakuya to be experimented on by Christoph while he launches into the final phase of his plan. Having his chief scientist create the L.O.K.I. drones allegedly to wipe out the enemies of Neo-Britannia, Norland kills the scientist to reveal they're actually meant to commit the genocide of all mankind, sending them around the world to grind countless people into a bloody mess.

Confronted by Sakuya, Norland reveals his true identity as Emperor Charles zi Britannia's clone who was once placed in the late Charles' Knights of the Round to have the Emperor's brain uploaded in the event of his own death, though Lelouch killed Charles before this could be done. Denying any dissatisfaction for his lot in life of good intent behind his acts, Norland enters his personal Knightmare the Foulbout to wipe out the "inferior" humans, saying he'll finally be able to rest with them gone.

Using the Foulbout, Norland casually (seemingly) kills his own "White Queen" Catherine, who'd followed him since she was a child, before using the Foulbout to command the L.O.K.I. to consume and kill all humans. After defeating Ash in the Foulbout, Ash and Sakuya combine their Knightmares to battle him and manage to fatally wound him with Knightmare swords impaling his body, though Norland activates a self-destruct mechanism which forces Ash to sacrifice himself to save Sakuya.

Heinousness?

Norland is easily the single most evil villain Code Geass has produced in a dark franchise where thousands of deaths are pretty routine for evil commanders. He's a horrid manipulator of children, breaks his most loyal soldiers into the point where fear of disappointing him leads to things like trying to nuke a whole ghetto. Ultimately, the whole thing is a mask for a plot to bloodily have mankind consumed by the L.O.K.I., which murder up to hundreds of thousands by the time he's stopped.

Additionally, he's the head of the horrid Neo-Britannia dictatorship and the regime sees minions of his like the Kirkwayne brothers behaving like racist Serial Killers given a rank and squad of soldiers to being mass murderers; or Christoph as a sadistic torturer who delights in having people tormented for hours and literally digging into their brains to extract information on Geass.

Mitigating factors?

He outright denies any anger or melancholy over being a clone once made to store Charles' mind when questioned by Sakuya and indicates he simply feels he can wipe out humans for being less than "vermin". When defeated, Norland smiles at the irony of Ash impaling him just as Norland himself once killed Nichol but he also controlled Ash's life, made it hell and tries to take Ash and Sakuya with him.

Verdict?

Absolute yes.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#57109: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:40:03 PM

I can't for the life of me determine if that's disqualifying (the evil's been removed??) or not.

FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#57110: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:40:17 PM

[tup] Norland

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#57111: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:41:01 PM

Easy and unequivocal yes to Norland, the biggest bastard of this franchise!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#57112: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:41:23 PM

Big [tup] to Norland

Bow to the Prototype
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#57113: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:42:22 PM

[tup] for Norland.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#57115: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:42:58 PM

I'll read that one tomorrow morning too (let's please not have too many more), but everyone else from the franchise still keep?

And what are these L.O.K.I. drones?

Edited by ACW on Sep 19th 2024 at 8:45:03 AM

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#57117: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:46:00 PM

There are two more posts to come from the series and it's fair game for discussion with the permission to start a few hours early.

They're murder drones that vacuum people up into something like a blender and turn them into a bloody paste, aka a Lethal Onslaught Keen Invisible aka a Murder Roomba!

MrInk99 Fernando David Páez Contreras from Mérida, Venezuela Since: Jul, 2021
Fernando David Páez Contreras
#57118: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:47:53 PM

[tup] for the MCP and Huey. Now we only have Dewey and Louie left.

Say, I had a question... is it possible to propose Mr. Ross from Regular Show: The Movie?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#57119: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:48:10 PM

Oh, it's not a requirement, just a request. I hate waking up to like 8 new effortposts.

And please don't forget the pending.

Wait, Norland's not human?

Edited by ACW on Sep 19th 2024 at 8:49:32 AM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#57120: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:49:34 PM

Ross has been downvoted multiple times since Regular Show is too comedic and doesn't take him seriously enough

[tup] Norland

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#57121: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:52:52 PM

And if there are two more, and nobody's being cut, it may be time for a Code Geass page.

MrInk99 Fernando David Páez Contreras from Mérida, Venezuela Since: Jul, 2021
Fernando David Páez Contreras
#57122: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:52:55 PM

Have any of you guys watched Regular Show?

carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#57123: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:53:21 PM

I can explain the Skearhead Last Words, if it helps.

When Ranborgs (basically the Underg Empire's foot soldiers) get the Underg Energy kicked out of them and return to whatever they were before, they say, "the clouds have cleared" (sumikitta).

Skearhead/Darkhead/Daijaerg, since he's the Anthropomorphic Personification of that energy, says harewatatta, "the skies have cleared". Basically sumikitta but on a much larger scale.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_2024_09_20_at_015928.png

When he's killed, he's briefly shown with a delirious smile on his face, saying, "This is the strongest power... I have lost...!" in a distorted voice.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_2024_09_20_at_015945.png

Then it cuts to this comparatively tiny snake made of glimmering light saying "the skies have cleared", which disappears into the clouds and vanishes, never to be seen again.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_2024_09_20_at_020015.png

Edited by carduinal-cyn on Sep 19th 2024 at 8:57:08 AM

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#57124: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:53:57 PM

ACW, I genuinely can't tell if you're reading the EP tomorrow or not since you seem keen on asking questions about it tongue

For the last of mine, every good despot needs a jovial madman following him! Enter Sir Christoph Scissorman.

Who is Christoph? What has he done?

Arguably Norland's most trusted subordinate, Christoph is a kooky, fun, perpetually cheerful old man... who happens to also be a fucking sadistic lunatic! Flashbacks show him helping in "training" a young Ash by beating the boy down in combat when Norland adopted him and Nicol to serve as his assassins. He happily signed on with Norland's Neo-Britannian Empire and took part in the fascist takeover of the Hokkaido area.

Becoming the "Black Rook" of the Einberg, Christoph helps Norland maintain power, commanding troops and piloting his own personal custom Knightmare: decked out with scissor blades to match his name! What really distinguishes Christoph though, is his talent for torture. As men are controlled by heroine Rozé/Sakuya's Geass, causing losses for Neo-Britannia, Christoph has information painfully extracted from the victims' brains until they expire over hours to days and remodels one fallen soldier with a Geass Canceller, driving the young man insane in the process.

After torturing dozens of men to death, Christoph hunts down Sakuya and captures her, also using the intel to let Norland order an all out assault and kill countless resistance fighters. Christoph holds a captive Sakuya to make her demonstrate her Geass on Japanese prisoners, keeping a prison's worth (including kids) and killing them with poison collars when she refuses. When Ash arrives, Christoph tries to turn him on Sakuya by revealing how she'd used her Geass on him to pose as his beloved brother. Caught and held by Ash's Knightmare, Sakuya tries to use her Geass on the mad man but he stays Defiant to the End, shooting himself in the head yet managing to gloat about how he'll never be her pawn before dropping dead.

Heinousness?

Norland leads Neo-Britannia but Christoph is a vicious Psycho Supporter who gleefully puts down any resistance to the fascist organization and outdoes V.V. and any other torturer by miles as countless are slowly killed so he can learn about Geass before being ready to kill a whole prison of captive Japanese citizens to force Sakuya to show him how her Geass works in his insane quest to create one of his own. He's even got his own hand in setting up a huge massacre of resistance fighters, hard pass.

Mitigating factors?

Lord no, the man's motivated by sadism and even admits he doesn't know Norland's master plan while just being happy to kill and torture. A gleeful monster contrasting his boss' stoic sociopathy.

Verdict?

Yes to the Scissorman!

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#57125: Sep 19th 2024 at 5:54:41 PM

[tup] Skearhead, [tup] Norland, and [tup] Huey. I actually revised Dewey's entry a while back, so is there a Louie in this trope we need to revisit? tongue

Edited by ANewMan on Sep 19th 2024 at 7:55:16 AM


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