Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Also, there isn't anything to suggest that his pre-recorded message to Ai was done for the exact purpose of driving him off the deep end into a Self-Sacrifice Scheme. It could've just been a final act of spite.
I'd say he was sarcastic when he said he went too far. He was musing over how entertaining it was to Mind Rape Jin until he became an Empty Shell, and even laughed about it as he said he went too far. It was painted as a mere coincidence that Lightning erased the memories of the torture; he was just saving his own hide for a petty victory over Revolver by keeping 1 LP. Bowman took most of Jin's consciousness data because even he found Lightning depraved for using Jin as a hostage.
While I wouldn't say Lightning was specifically aiming for Ai to perform a Self-Sacrifice Scheme, he was definitely trying to smash any hope of him coexisting with humanity. Ai just chose to die because he's openly terrified of becoming as evil as Lightning.
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In that case, I'll switch to an abstain since Bohman sympathizes with his desire to live and the fact that the Cyberse World is only known to consist of the 6 Ignis.
Also for future reference, the EP was generally solid, but the formatting could use some work.
Edited by 227someguy on Jul 4th 2024 at 12:42:28 PM
Everyone look at my sandboxIf I can add one final word on my opinion on Lanser and Judgement Night.
I don't feel the Lanser on the boat is a normal innocent man or a blank slate, there's a point where he's talking to Miss Stanley about himself and is about to say what his job is, when we hear the sound of a boat and he stammers. He also states as a fact that he knows he didn't spend any time in England.
Even without his extensive knowledge of U-Boats taken into mind, Passenger Lanser is not exactly an innocent as I feel he's described. Passenger Lanser is stand-offishness, not very social and gets notably annoyed when the Steward finds his Kriegsmarine hat in the closet and picks it up, even rudely yanking it from the stewards hands.
These are traits, I see applying to the real Lanser, whom I have no doubt would get equally annoyed if someone touched his Kriegsmarine uniform.
The audio book is the exact same story as the episode without any real additions, it just clarifies Lanser's thoughts through words rather than facial expressions as its a radio program. Like we don't see the shot of the doll floating in the sea like in the tv series, so in the radio program, Lanser points out the doll and that it means the girl is dead.
Also I feel the story doesn't make any sense as Karma if its a Alternate Personality Punishment and it isn't the same Lanser whom sunk the Glasgow that is being punished.
The way I see it, Lanser's divine punishment is being put in a scenario where he's forced to confront the empathy he ignored when he was alive. Like in his final moments after Lanser has seen himself on the U-Boat wearing the same Kriegsmarine hat in his cabin and as he's drowning in the sea, Lanser realizes that he should've listened to his conscience.
I feel alot of Christian stories with eternal damnation end with the damned individual in Hell, having a Heel Realization but knowing it is far too late for any more chances.
Now on another subject,
to Creation King and Ringmaster Dante from the Animesque Monica spinoff.
Edited by Monsund on Jul 4th 2024 at 10:40:32 AM
Going to Abstain on Lightning until I know wether or not the other shows are in the same continuity. If it's a standalone work I think he passes as a CM but otherwise he has a lot of competition and a small numer of victims.
for Marius
for Kid Karnevil (pretty cool villain name)
Unsure about Mr. Dante. Four of the characters he wants to kill are the main characters and I vaguley remember that we established that "just" trying to kill the heroes isn't enough. If that still applies I Abstain but otherwise it's a
for Creation King
Oh right. Yu gi oh Vrains is an Alternate Universe from the first three series (duel monsters, GX and 5DS).
All the ones after 5DS take place in their own universe. So Zexal, arc v, etc.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Here's the write-up for Bubnova.
- Humiliated And Insulted: Madam Bubnova is a cruel landlady who runs a brothel inside her building, often procuring women from the street and the house, even being willing to prostitute children and sell them as young as 11. When one of her tenants dies from sickness, Bubnova adopts her daughter Nellie and starts beating her, so badly and so often that she has convulsive fits, which Bubnova does not care if she dies from. She later pimps out the 13-year-old Nellie to the pedophile Arkhipov.
Writeup for Bedyay.
- The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevroniya: Bedyay is a cruel Tatar commander. Together with Burunday, he leads an army against the Russian lands, plundering Lesser Kitezh and ordering his underlings to kill the residents without mercy. Bedyay and Burunday torture the survivors to make them reveal the location of Greater Kitezh and are annoyed that almost nobody gives in. They also regret that Vsevolod, the son of the Prince of Kitezh, has died in battle, since they would have brutally tormented him just to humiliate him. Bedyay and Burunday both set their sights on the gorgeous prisoner Fevroniya, but while Burunday gently tries to comfort her to the best of his abilities, Bedyay mocks the idea of being respectful towards a captive and gloats about how he'll turn Fevroniya into a Sex Slave and beat her into obedience.
Creation King.
Alright, just finished the EP for Elden Ring's DLC. Thanks to Siegfried1337 for helping me make sure I didn't miss important lore. Also, I should note that Emperors informed that he dropped out of the collab cause he hasn't beaten the DLC yet. Shame, but I do respect his decision and wish him luck in the DLC, especially when it comes to the final boss. With that out of the way, let's begin:
What's the Work?:
Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree is the 2024 DLC expansion to the 2022 base game. It involves the Tarnished exploring the newly discovered Land of Shadow in the hopes of locating Miquella the Kind. Here, the Tarnished faces a large amount of enemies and foes, but none of them can compare to the vileness that is….. Bayle the Dread.
Who is Bayle the Dread? What does he do?:
Bayle the Dread is the forefather of the Drakes, and is believed to be one of the oldest dragons in the Lands Between. Bayle used to serve Dragonlord Placidusax, but one day, he decides to betray him in order to claim his title for himself, resulting in a brutal battle that left both dragons greatly wounded, with Bayle in particular being forced to flee to the Land of Shadow with his army of Drakes. This results in him becoming a target of the Dragon Communication.
Ever since then, he has built a reputation as the most foul and vilest dragon to have ever exist. A claim that he backs up by bringing havoc and destruction wherever he goes, claiming many untold lives in the process, all because of his rage over his failure to become the Dragonlord. One of Spirit NPCs has this to say regarding Bayle's cruelty:
One of his many victims was Igon, who barely managed to escape with his life, but is left gravely wounded, and swears revenge towards the foul dragon. He will eventually die of said wounds following Bayle's boss fight. Bayle's cruelty doesn't stop at mere humans though. Turns out that he eats and murders his own fellow Drakes as well, which is proven by his lair being filled to the brim with Drake skeletons.
Eventually the Tarnished will come across a Dragon Communion Priestess, who informs them of Bayle's existence and how he must be slain for what he did to Placidusax. The Tarnished will eventually confront him in his lair where Bayle attempts to kill them. If you acquired Igon's furled finger beforehand, you can summon him for the battle so he can assist the Tarnished in killing Bayle in revenge for wounding him. Regardless if you summon Igon or not, the Tarnished will eventually slay Bayle in battle, seemingly putting an end to his tyranny. Though, it's implied that Bayle's spirit is still alive and will one day possess the one consumes his heart.
Heinous Standard:
Elden Ring has a few characters that are quite genocidal, such as Marika and Messmer, but Bayle manages to stand out in resources alone, being a powerful old dragon unrelated to any of the major big bads in both base game and DLC stories, massacring anyone in the Land of Shadow all because of he's pretty sore about failing to become the Dragonlord, plus him eating and devouring his kin is a more unique crime that makes Bayle even more vile than he already.
Migrating Qualities?:
Non existence. The game makes it clear that he has agency, especially since it is confirmed that they’re plenty of dragons that has moral agency, such as Placidusax. He also most certainly cares very little about his fellow Drakes, given his willingness to devour and kill them. Overall, he is just as vile as he is described to be.
Conclusion:
In summary, Bayle seems to be a keeper. And for that alone I say…..
CURSE YOU, BAYLE!!!!!
Yes to Bayle. Just in time to fill the vacancy left by Mohg.
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Someone could properly explain this better than me, but while it's not SUPER conmen, I recall genocide being committed by quite a few characters, such as Marika and Messmer. And there's one character in the base game that attempts to manipulate you into destroying EVERYTHING in existence with the frenzied flame (Debating on whether he's worth a post or not). But with his fewer resources, being the most vile dragon in the game, and his own unique crime of devouring and murdering his own kin, I think he makes it
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jul 5th 2024 at 7:49:35 AM

Lightning, Dante and the Creation King
I don't want the world, I just want your half.