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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

herofan2003 (Less Newbie)
#48401: Jul 3rd 2024 at 6:11:14 PM

Hello, It's me again. So, this my new proposual:

What's the work?

The Boys: Real Justice, a crossover fanfic with The Boys (2019) and the Justice League. My character proposed is Reverse Flash.

Who is he

Reverse Flash aka Professor Zoom is a character from DC Comics, The Flash's Arch-Enemy, Time traveller criminal and the ultimate evil speedster.

What has he done?

  • He's part of the Lex Luthor's Secret Society of Super-Villains, who they takes interest on Earth-Seven.
  • When Luthor calls him to capture The Boys, Thawne prepares to torture them to find Hughie.
  • When Lex tolds him The League arrives with a Zeta Beam, that doesn't stop him from passing his arm through Frenchie before running after Hughie anyway, though.
  • He goes on a rampage and murders a bar full of Vought's employees, by disappearing and reappearing with slit throats, shattered bones, and various other wounds.
  • He kills Vought speedster Velocity, was by dragging him against the ground at super-speed, ripping his flesh to the bone.
  • Velocity was still alive and conscious after the fact.
  • When he finds sole survivor, he makes it clear that the only reason he didn't kills her was so she could pass on a message to A-Train and Flash.
  • He reveals A-Train's family all of Reggie's horrific crimes to them, completely destroying any faith and trust they had in him.
  • When he encounters with The Flash, Zoom mockingly calls him by his sidekick name, "Kid Flash".
  • During his fight with Wally, Zoom admites that he can't understand why he tries to defend A-Train knowing that he is a murderous drug addict.
  • He mockingly tells A-Train not to worry, because at least they'll have the Flash to look up to when he's gone.
  • He brutally murderes A-Train by running him around the world without the protection of the Speed Force, completely tearing A-Train apart, and leaves nothing, but his blood all over the street and his burnt plastic goggles.
  • He made sure to deliberately murder A-Train right in front of his family, horrofying Reggie's family and The Flash.
  • When he's stopped by The Flash and the Legion of Super-Heroes, Thawne tells him that doesn't mean A-Train still alive.

Freudian excuse or mitigating factors

  • Lex Luthor says Thawne’s a psychopath just much as The Joker, but he’s able to work with a team and remain focussed, so long as you provide him with an incentive, which is not exactly calming coming from a man who can erase you from the timeline for the smallest reasons.

Heinous Standards:

  • He's depraved and sadist just like the comics, it is shown when Luthor tells to Secret Society of Super-Villains they have a free-pass to do everything they wanted, he was very excited to start. He massacre an entire bar full of Vought Supes, except one just to pass a message, he pass his arm through Frenchie even if that was unnecessary, and, to top it all off, Thawne made sure to deliberately murder A-Train right in front of his family, horrofying everyone, since A-Train's family, The Flash and even Hughie (who has every reason to hate him). Even The Brain says that he makes The Joker appear to be a decent human being.
  • He's also a very petty man, shown by the fact he tells the sole survivor the Secret Lair's massacre that he gonna kills her if she doesn't pass a message to A-Train and The Flash, destroys any faith and trust Reggie's family would have for him before brutally kills him in front of them, and at the end, he mockingly tells Wally that stopped him doesn't mean that A-Train still alive.

Conclusion

Just like the main version of the comics, all Reverse Flash's reasons to do what he do is because of his own petty wishes, so he has to be here.

Edited by herofan2003 on Jul 3rd 2024 at 6:12:57 AM

Starkrafty Since: Sep, 2017
#48402: Jul 3rd 2024 at 6:34:43 PM

  • Reckless:
    • Destroy All Monsters: "Gerard Runyan," real name Richard Loomis, is a rich property developer likened to a "shark" for his predatory business practices. "Runyan"'s MO is to convince struggling land owners—usually Black and Hispanic ones—to sell their assets to him with the promise he'll build their properties up, only for "Runyan" to sell these assets to greedy Mega Corps who do with these properties as they please. "Runyan" strings Wretched Hive after Wretched Hive behind him, gleefully plunging entire communities into destitution and leaving countless people ruined. Anyone who gets in his way is killed and their death made to look like an accident; a Black politician and his son both die this way, and the real Gerard Runyan died years ago so Loomis could legally replace him. When Reckless and his young ally force him to go on the run, Loomis returns so he can personally savor burning the both of them alive.
  • Transformers/Ghostbusters: Gozer the Gozerian, the Traveller, wanders from world to world for the purpose of destroying them utterly. One-thousand years in the past, before it came to Earth and was subsequently defeated by the Ghostbusters, Gozer came to Cybertron in the middle of the Autobot-Decepticon war. Picking no sides, Gozer proceeded to massacre Autobot and Decepticon alike while using the form of a cackling, {{Kaiju}-sized Starscream, ultimately exterminating all life on Cybertron except a few stray survivors.
  • Wolverine 2003: "Cry" is a cult leader responsible for the death of a teenage runaway Logan befriends. When Logan goes on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge, he learns "Cry" is a Serial Rapist and Serial Killer of girls and women he abducts from the local town of Westfall so he can break them into being his "brides." Almost all of his "brides" have been shattered into obedient Stockholm syndrome; anyone who dissents is dismembered or murdered by "Cry." A sick and perverted sadist, "Cry" boasts that he takes his epithet because his victims "always cry for more!"

Edited by Starkrafty on Jul 3rd 2024 at 7:35:02 AM

herofan2003 (Less Newbie)
#48403: Jul 3rd 2024 at 6:54:14 PM

[tup] to Gerard Runyan, Gozer and "Cry"

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#48404: Jul 3rd 2024 at 7:48:56 PM

[tup] Junior, Lanser and Moridun

As for Thawne how does he compare to other villains?

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#48406: Jul 3rd 2024 at 9:00:37 PM

Excellent effort post Mermaid, but as someone whom really loves the Judgement Night episode of Twilight Zone, I feel I'll give a [tdown] if its ok to do so?

Don't get me wrong, Lanser is an awful person and definitely crossed the Moral Event Horizon, but I don't feel the amnesia erased his natural personality.

Notably amnesiac Lanser still retains his name, german citizenship including the town he was born in, and displays an exhaustive knowledge of U-Boats and how they would attack another vessel. The only thing Lanser doesn't know is his position in the German military as well as how he got onto the Queen Glasgow boat.

I feel the reason that Lanser shows sympathy and remorse in Hell is due to the change in perspective and that he's now knowing his victims personally as individuals. It is said that it is easier to kill people you don't know, even civilians, if they aren't people you know personally. Not that makes killing civilians ever right to be perfectly clear.

If past Lanser met and befriended people like Captain Wilbur and Miss Stanley before the war and had known they were on the Glasgow, it might not have been so easy for him to cruelly sink the ship and kill them all. Also the present Lanser's reaction when seeing his past self in the U-Boat seems to imply he realized the unforgivable crime he committed. The audio version also has him in shock and distress upon realizing he was the one that murdered all those innocent people.

For comparison, I think Gunther Lutze from “Death’s Head” still wouldn’t feel empathy for anyone but himself if even he had his memory from the SS erased and was placed as an inmate with Becker.

Again, this is just my opinion, even if it may be controversial. Again to be clear, I think Lanser is a horrible person and his warcrimes were unforgivable.

Edited by Monsund on Jul 3rd 2024 at 9:50:43 AM

PeterVanHelsing Since: Sep, 2019
#48407: Jul 3rd 2024 at 9:13:34 PM

Honestly... I agree with Monsund. I was already not sold on the EP and they put it in better words than I could why. [tdown] Lanser

AmateurStorytime Just a starting content creator from Home Since: Mar, 2024
Just a starting content creator
#48408: Jul 3rd 2024 at 10:26:30 PM

I'm going to again use Light Yagami as an example. During Light's memory gambit when he gave up ownership of the Death Note, the Death Note was the only thing he forgot. He remembered Kira, L, Misa, and everything in his life not specifically connected to the notebook. He even began to put the piecds together that he might actually be Kira, and the thought horrified him.

Despite this, Light still counts because, even though he still remembers most of who he is, forgetting just a single key detail drastically changes his behavior and mindset.

Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#48409: Jul 3rd 2024 at 11:04:07 PM

[up]

Again, this is just my opinion and feel free to disagree, but I feel the difference there is Light goes Complete Monster when he has the knowledge that the power to decide who lives and dies is in his hands.

In other words, that monster was always inside Light, being given the absolute power of the Death Note brought out Light's pure evil and it overwhelmed any good traits he had in favor of his god complex.

I feel the big thing about Lanser in Hell is that he gets to meet his victims face to face and connect with them as individual people rather than a faceless mob of strangers on a boat he can shoot down, not that he's not a Uboat captain.

Do note that present Lanser still knows he's a german citizen and not American, as well as everything about Uboats, how a crew for one would operate and even how they'd attack a civilian ship, so he still has the knowledge of being a U-boat Captain inside of him. Near the ending of the episode, Lanser sees himself as the captain of the Uboat and realizes why he had a Uboat Captain hat in his cabin, Lanser remains horrified. The way the scene is shot more or less confirms to me that Lanser's thoughts are My God, What Have I Done?.

Again, I personally feel if Lanser was still a Uboat captain for Nazi Germany, but he knew that the people on the Glasgow consisted of people he knew personally like Miss Stanley, the young woman, whom was nice to him at a Pre-war party in England, as well as that the girl was the polite young english tourist that thanked him for finding her doll at a German Embassy he was at, Lanser wouldn't have mercilessly sunk their ship.

Edited by Monsund on Jul 3rd 2024 at 11:52:36 AM

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#48410: Jul 3rd 2024 at 11:30:41 PM

I get the hold outs and the downvotes, but by all accounts I still think there’s enough of a difference between amnesiac Larsen and Past Larsen. It’s still shown that besides knowing he’s born in Germany and the sudden fear about a U-Boat sinking the ship, Larsen knows zero about who he is or what he has done, and so well…it’s hard for me to see the past Larsen, a complete sadist who remorselessly sinks a ship down, being able to be someone like the Amnesiac Larsen without him getting his memory wiped. And part of Larsen’s Ironic Hell is the fact he can’t remember anything at all, making him another person who is now at the receiving end of his own cruelty.

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#48411: Jul 3rd 2024 at 11:42:02 PM

In light of [up], I am going with [tup] to Larsen. It honestly sounds like a borderline case of Death of Personality given how different the pre and post amnesia Larsen are.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#48412: Jul 3rd 2024 at 11:45:03 PM

[up][up] and [up]

Sure, I respect your opinion to be clear and understand that this may be contentious.

I personally feel the Lanser on the boat is still the same person, he's just placed in a different situation without the knowledge of why he's there for most of his time, but the ability to empathize with people wasn't something he gained by losing his memory of being in the army.

The Lanser on the boat specifically states his home is in Frankfurt, Germany, that he's heading "Away from home" and not towards "home". The big thing Lanser is trying to remember is his occupation and why he arrived on the Glasgow and what was he doing in England in the first place.

Lanser: No, not really [responding to if he has Amnesia]]. I know who I am. I'm Carl Lanser. I was born in Frankfurt, Germany.

When a Glasgow passenger mentions their worries of being attacked by U-Boats, Present Lanser gives a very detailed explanation to him on exactly how a U-Boat would attack the Glasgow down to the amount of Torpedo's it would use. Captain Wilbur even says Lanser sounds "rather like a U-boat Commander", this makes the passenger Lanser drop his teacup.

Captain Wilbur: You'll forgive me, mister. Forgive me Mr. Lanser, but you sound rather like a U-boat commander.

The Glasgow Lanser's explanation also completely one to one predicts what past Lanser later does to the Glasgow, to me this says that the Lanser on the boat is still the same man as the one on the U-Boat.

I will note, the Lanser on the Glasgow sees evidence of his Uboat past in his cabin such as the German army hat with "Carl Lanser Kapitan Leutnant Kriegsmarine" written on it and this doesn't stop him from being upset of seeing the people die. Near the end when Lanser sees himself on the Uboat with the same hat in his cabin, the pieces of his past seem to come together.

As unforgivably cruel as Kapitan Leutnant Kriegsmarine Lanser was to all those American civilians, I feel he would've shown empathy if it was people he personally knew. Like it was easier for Lanser to feel no remorse when he killed a bunch of "strangers" he never met face to face, then if he killed named people he had conversations with.

Like part of the punishment is for the Lanser watching all those people he connected with drown, to realize the monstrousness action he committed when he sunk the Glasgow and that that he could've shown mercy to all those innocent people, but now its too late to ever undo the warcrimes he brought.

This is just my personal opinion and I'll accept the thread consensus for Lanser.

Edited by Monsund on Jul 4th 2024 at 1:48:07 AM

KOman 'Sup? Since: Jul, 2013
'Sup?
#48413: Jul 4th 2024 at 12:26:45 AM

  • Work: Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS

  • Who is he and what has he done: Lightning, the antagonist of Season 2.
    • Wants to subjugate humanity.
    • Tortured the child who was used to create him for fun until his mind broke, then used him as a puppet and hostage.
    • Corrupted his fellow Ignis Windy and even put a curse in him, treating him as a disposable tool.
    • Destroyed the Cyberse World where he and his fellow Ignis live.
    • Cares nothing about his fellow Ignis dying.

  • Freudian Excuse: Lightning was the one Ignis considered unfit for coexisting with humanity, so he decided all the Ignis were incomplete and created an AI named Bowman to absorb them all, just so he wouldn't feel inferior.

  • Are they bad enough?

  • Final verdict?
    • The most evil character in the show.

¿?¡!
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#48414: Jul 4th 2024 at 1:41:42 AM

Saying this proposal is barebones would be a compliment.

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#48415: Jul 4th 2024 at 1:42:36 AM

[tup] for Reggis.

Abstain on Captain Carl. I've the same feelings about him as Monsund regarding his personality.

[tup] for Moridun.

Like DemonDuckofDoom I also would like to know how big are the (attempted) body counts of the other villains in the story. There are some very nasty people in both The Boys universe as well as the DCU.

Need more info about Lightning before I can make a decision. The EP is pretty short. How many people do the other villains (try to) kill? Even if they have redeeming qualities he still must be compared to them. Is this a different setting or takes place in the same universe as other Yu-Gi-Oh stories? How exactly did he destroy Cyberse World and did it resulted in the deaths of others?

AutumnLeaves Since: Mar, 2014
#48416: Jul 4th 2024 at 3:02:33 AM

Okay, I think I'm going to abstain on Lanser in the end. It all boils down to whether the two selves are distinct enough, and, like I said, I was doubtful of that from the start.

Edited by AutumnLeaves on Jul 4th 2024 at 1:03:23 PM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#48417: Jul 4th 2024 at 5:59:58 AM

[tdown] Lanser. I feel that Amnesia is tricky. Someone like Radiguet from Jetman is easy since the moment he gets his memories back he is instantly disgusted with the good things he did while Amnesiac and goes back to being a monster.

Also, Madder Red is a very extreme case of Heel–Face Brainwashing. To the point where his mind is rewired and Madder Red still exists as a weird shadow personality.

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#48418: Jul 4th 2024 at 6:09:54 AM

Also Light isn’t a comparison I’d use. Even with his Memory Gambit, there’s nothing he really does that disproves he’s an egomaniac who wants to bask in solving cases and wouldn’t go off the deep end when given the chance.

LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#48419: Jul 4th 2024 at 6:12:03 AM

After reading Monsuno's arguments, I think I will have to switch to [tdown] on Lanser. The situation reminds me of the Christopher Plummer film Remember in which a Nazi flees persecution by pretending to be a Jew. In his old age, he suffers from dementia and gradually forgets who he really is. When the truth is revealed, he is horrified and takes his own life. I think Lanser probably would have done the same had he been in that position.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#48420: Jul 4th 2024 at 6:32:15 AM

I think I'll swap to [tdown]. This sounds way too iffy to me if he rember stuff like his name.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#48421: Jul 4th 2024 at 7:33:30 AM

Gotta say nay to Lanser

Gonna need a lot more detail for Lightning before I can vote

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#48422: Jul 4th 2024 at 7:37:17 AM

Yeah, a quick look at the wiki say says Lightning is an AI program created by someone else. I'll need the details of that before I can vote

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#48423: Jul 4th 2024 at 7:45:32 AM

Gonna switch [tdown] on Lenser and give one to reverse flash, dosen’t sound bed enought when he has standard of Boys and DC to content with when his only big crime is massacre of bar.

Also need way more info on Lightning

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#48424: Jul 4th 2024 at 8:09:08 AM

[up][up]Agency isn't an issue. I play duel links. And Ai (the heroes best friend is an ai created the same way) and a good guy.

I just haven't watched the show itself so no clue.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#48425: Jul 4th 2024 at 8:11:05 AM

Switching my vote to [tdown] on Lenser and give one to reverse flash as well as Geode said.

Also Lightning proposal seems bareboned and as said needs more info so I can give a proper verdict.


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