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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#48201: Jun 30th 2024 at 10:54:13 AM

So new What If? example. From Volume 1. Issue #44 - Captain America were revived today. Which Geode gave me. It features a Captain America that revived during the 1984 the present (lol. You can't make that up) where America is an oppressive state. It's author recently passed so a few articles about it were published.

Who is William Taurey?

  • The leader of the sons of liberty and the secret backer to the various hate groups like the secret empire (I was Kinda thinking of checking the orginal leader. Nixon for here) and Serpent society.

  • After fascist right wing Captain America (William Burnside) is released and empersonates Steve. He uses him as a mouth piece to funnel out anti immigrant, antisemitic rhetoric , etc.
  • During a peaceful protest by a group ot black protestors. The sons fake an assassination of Burnside. This causes the police to attack and brutalize the protestors.

  • Riots spread across the nation which the Sons put down with increasingly horrific legislation.

  • Anyway normal Steve gets out and discovers that Harlem has been turned into a full on WW 2 nazi ghetto of pure misery of its black population. Horrific police brutality and oppression..

  • Taurey the guy in charge is using Burnside as his puppet. Revealing that in his last formal address. Hell use it to formally make himself the first monarch of the united states.

  • Anyway Steve arrives with nick fury and spider man and kicks burnside's ass.

And gives one hell of a speech to snap the crowd out of it.

Listen to me — all of you out there! You were told by this man — your hero — that America is the greatest country in the world!

He told you that Americans were the greatest people — that America could be refined like silver, could have the impurities hammered out of it, and shine more brightly! He went on about how precious America was — how you needed to make sure it remained great! And he told you anything was justified to preserve that great treasure, that pearl of great price that is America!

Well, I say America is nothing!! Without its ideals — its commitment to the freedom of all men, America is a piece of trash!

A nation is nothing! A flag is a piece of cloth! I fought Adolf Hitler not because America was great, but because it was fragile! I knew that liberty could be snuffed out here as in Nazi Germany! As a people, we were no different than them! When I returned, I saw that you nearly did turn American into nothing!

And the only reason you're not less then nothing — — is that it's still possible for you to bring freedom back to America!"

Mitigating factors?

Nah. He's A Nazi by Any Other Name. Nothing more. Only thing is he's only in four panels. But he gets enough personalty and it's revealed it's him who was doing all this stuff from the background. Admiring to string the various groups thay have been doing this. And setting it in motion.

Heinous standard?

Alternate continuty. Horrific riots and police brutality, turning Harlem into a ghetto, planning to turn America into Naziesqe monarchy.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#48207: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:30:08 AM

Unrelated note. Do we wanna split What If into it's own page. The main marvel page is at 241,654 characters. And the other heroes Don't have enough entries to justify splitting off just yet like thor and Iron man.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#48208: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:31:16 AM

I think a What If? page would be fine at this point

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#48209: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:31:50 AM

I noticed that. The page isn't throwing off the too-big warning yet (which is why I didn't mention anything), but when it does, What If should definitely be the one to get split off.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#48210: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:35:12 AM

Yes to Taurey.

I am okay with a What if page.

Edited by Bullman on Jun 30th 2024 at 1:36:12 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#48211: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:35:16 AM

[tup] Taurey

Fine with What If page.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jun 30th 2024 at 11:36:05 AM

jlvs200s from The Netherlands (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#48212: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:42:55 AM

[tup] William Taurey

"The time has come for every last Shoppe... No! The time has come for the DREAM KINGDOM to bow down to me! Gotcha ! Hee-hee!" | He/Him
WilyGryphon Since: Apr, 2023
#48213: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:44:17 AM

[tup] Taurey. A lot of that sure sounds topical today.

Sure to a What If? page.

Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#48214: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:44:20 AM

I am okay with a What if page for Marvel. There are lots of examples that fit into being it's own.

Starkrafty Since: Sep, 2017
#48215: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:51:15 AM

Easy yes to Taurey.

I got some candidates over the coming days courtesy of some friends of mine I want to knock off. First up, a guy Mir threw to me: from the first five issues of the 2003 run of Wolverine written by Greg Rucka...

What has "Cry" done?

  • Main villain of the five-issue "Brotherhood" arc, "Cry" is a vicious cultist leading a group called the Brothers of the New World. Cry has a chokehold on an entire small town named Westfall thanks to his connections with the corrupt chief of police. Girls and women (particularly the former—one local notes "[Cry] has a thing for girls") are reputed to go missing all the time, simply vanishing with seemingly nobody willing to speak up against the cult...
  • As it turns out, "Cry" is a loathsome Serial Rapist and Serial Killer of these young girls. Cry abducts them so they can become his "brides." Most of these girls have been so thoroughly broken by Cry that they've developed Stockholm syndrome; as an especially scummy aside, Cry boasts that he earned his epithet because his victims "always cry out for more!"
  • Any hint of resistance is met with dismemberment or murder. Logan meets a runaway slave from the cult, a seventeen-year-old girl named Lucy, who ends up murdered on Cry's orders; her father later reveals to Logan that the cult had his eye taken out because he tried to locate Lucy. Furthermore, Cry has an ATF agent kidnapped and drugged so he can make a "bride" out of her, too, and she learns that one of Cry's more defiant girls got her thumb chopped off for being a little too stubborn in bed one day.
  • When Wolverine comes to wipe out the cult, he discovers a storage room filled with crates filled with dozens of bloodstained dresses and shirts that belonged to girls just like Lucy; countless numbers of girls who have abducted, brainwashed, and "used up" before finally being murdered by Cry. Unable to control his anger, Wolverine goes full Unstoppable Rage on the Brothers and kills every single one of them (minus, of course, the abused brides), ending his rampage by cornering Cry and doing what he does best to scumbags like him.
Any mitigating factors?
  • Absolutely nothing to talk about here.
Heinous standard?
  • Self-explanatory after the EP, I think. Sex slavers are always, always treated as the bottom rung of human depravity in Wolverine comics, and "Cry" is no exception.

Edited by Starkrafty on Jun 30th 2024 at 12:54:03 PM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
jlvs200s from The Netherlands (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#48218: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:54:21 AM

[tup] Cry

"The time has come for every last Shoppe... No! The time has come for the DREAM KINGDOM to bow down to me! Gotcha ! Hee-hee!" | He/Him
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#48219: Jun 30th 2024 at 11:56:17 AM

[tup]Cry

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#48221: Jun 30th 2024 at 12:06:17 PM

I made a sandbox for Monster What If since most seemed okay with it. I am unsure what to link for the other media though.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#48222: Jun 30th 2024 at 12:06:42 PM

[tup] for William Taurey and Cry.

I'm also cool with a What If page.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Evanpotter09 Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss

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