Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Jhon
- Justice Society of America Volume 1 Issues 42-44: Ahk-Ton is an ancient Egyptian priest who discovered the spectre of Ra and uses it to become the first elemental shapeshifter known as Metamorpho. Ahk-Ton is responsible for burning the kingdom of Khandaq to the ground and killing hundreds, including the wife and children of Black Adam. Allying with Vandal Savage and supplying him with an army of elemental soldiers, the two plot to level Egypt and rule over the ruins. Attacking the city of Karna, the two intend to level it and than take their blood conquest to the rest of Africa.
- Outsiders (2003): Ishmael Gregor is a powerful Russian crime boss and the second Sabbac. A killer from the age of 12, Ishmael desires even more power, so breaks the original Sabbac (Timothy Karnes) out of prison and empowers him through a mass Human Sacrifice of an entire bus of innocents who are burned alive, including mothers clutching their children. Ishmael backstabs Karnes during the ritual to take the powers for himself and become the new Sabbac. Going on a killing spree, Sabbac intends to wipe out the city and unleash a demon army to take over the world. Defeated, Sabbac, resurfaces, attacks Alcatraz, and absorbs the Seven Deadly Sins trapped within to empower himself. Sabbac uses his powers to force the prisoners to have sex and force the Outsiders to fight each other, planning to dominate the world. Returning one more time in 52, Sabbac tries to murder a bunch of children as a sacrifice to demon lord Neron, who will use it to unleash Hell on Earth.
- FBI: Most Wanted: Ms Gaskins is the wicked CEO of Gaskins Aerospace. Gaskins knows that the hydraulic fluid her company makes is faulty and could lead to thousands of deaths from the crashing of planes that use it but has been covering it up out of pure greed. Gaskins ignores the warnings of engineer William Barlowe for months and leaves him contaminated with radiation which leaves him dying painfully from radiation sickness, before cutting off all his benefits and firing him to hide the truth. Gaskins later has a hitman murder a reporter who could break the story. Gaskins horrible greed and "her desire to pray at the altar of the almighty dollar" as stated by Agent Remy Scott ultimately lead to the Harrisburg crash, which kills four people and critically injures another.
Acrually Ravok mentioned that. Degaton has a bunch of different Verisons in post crisis due to the fucky nature of time travel. So he only ep'd his JSA Verison. As he has redeeming qualities in the others.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Though is the same one that we have the one in the first 2 volumes
?
- Outsiders (2003) Issues #34-37 “The Good Fight” arc: President Ratu Bennin is the genocidal dictator of the African nation of Mali, determined to destroy the Remori people. He had taken tens of thousands of young boys from poor villages and turned them into Peti’Lions, sadistic soldiers who massacre villages while raping women and children. When Thundra, disguised as a member of his cabinet, expresses revulsion at the cruelty of the Peti’Lions, Bennin makes it clear he doesn’t plan for any of them to reach adulthood before invoking Thundra to his bed. To test her loyalty, Bennin assigns her to command a massacre of the village where leaders of the Remori resistance live. When he learns that the Outsiders are in his country, Rannin unleashes the clone of The Flash on them to kill them.
- Fantaghirò: Lord Darken was once the magic teacher of the girl who will become the White Fairy, before he started dabbling in the dark arts and became the master of evil. Longing only to spread hatred and destruction while destroying goodness, Darken almost wiped out the dragons. Needing a heart full of hatred to truly spread his evil across the world, he manipulated princess Kyra of Tuan into being his servant by preventing her fiance from showing up at their wedding, turning her into the Black Witch. Darken had her steal the Kourum, a magical artifact symbolising the love of the humanity, allowing him to spread his influence across the world. Darken unleashes the Four Horsemen to bring hunger, deadly plague, hatred and finally over four centuries of war to the kingdoms of Dana and Tuan, killing countless people. When Fantaghirò is born and prophesised to bring an end to the conflict, Darken orders the Black Witch to kill her. Darken continues to try and sabotage the relationship between Fantaghirò and Dana’s king Romualdo to continue the war, attempting to kill them in various ways. After Fantaghirò saves Kourum, Darken continues to empower and push the Black Witch into plots to reignite war or destroy kingdoms. Darken also has many people corrupted into his minions, from cursing the wizard Tarabas as an infant to turn into a beast if he ever feels love, to turning a boy traumatised by war into a pirate who steals souls in an attempt to regain his lost youth. In the series finale, Darken lures the heroes into his domain before unleashing fire snakes to burn Dana, Tuan and the magical forest of Oread to the ground.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jun 29th 2024 at 10:21:39 AM
I know this is lengthy, and I apologize in advance, but I've already trimmed this five times and can't find anything else to cut that isn't important to getting a rudimentary understanding of what's going on.
The work
Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon is the latest title in the Armored Core video game series by FromSoftware. Long ago, humanity colonized the planet of Rubicon-3 and discovered a mysterious substance known as Coral, which plunged the universe into a massive corporate war over this source of near-unlimited energy. 50 years before the events of the game, an event happened known as the Fires of Ibis, in which the Coral was set ablaze, scorching the star system and leaving few survivors on Rubicon-3. This put a temporary halt to the Coral War, but as soon as information got out that there was still Coral on the planet, everyone immediately went back to fighting over it.
The player character, C4-621, is a survivor of fourth-generation augmentation, a process in which a human undergoes severely invasive surgery and is exposed to Coral so they can better integrate with Humongous Mecha known as Armored Cores, or ACs for short. They're sent by Handler Walter to Rubicon-3 as a mercenary, ostensibly just to make money, and eventually get the callsign "Raven". During one mission, Raven gets exposed to a massive amount of Coral and passes out, waking up with a woman's voice in their head named Ayre.
As it turns out, Coral isn't just a valuable energy source, it's a living, organic substance that is naturally inclined to gather together and propogate, and can even take control of machinery in order to defend itself. Whenever an augmented human gets exposed to too much Coral, their mind leaves their body and becomes part of it. This is what happened to Ayre, and almost happens to Raven. The player eventually learns that what everyone is specifically fighting for is to try and find the Coral Convergence, a massive reservoir where Coral all over the world gathers together and multiplies. It also turns out that Handler Walter was also searching for the Coral Convergence, not to harness it like everyone else, but to destroy it. The Fires of Ibis weren't the result of an accident, it was an intentional catastrophe brought about by Professor Nagai, a researcher who worked with Walter's father, because he saw the Coral was multiplying exponentially and feared what could happen if humanity kept fighting over it, and so he tried to destroy it, sacrificing his own life and many others in the process. Seeing that the Coral is once again beginning to propogate out of control, Walter intends to finish the job and put an end to the Coral War for good.
The character
V.II Snail is the deputy commander of the Vespers and the one in charge of running the operations for the Arquebus Corporation on Rubicon-3. (On paper, V.I Freud is the commander, but all he cares about is fighting, so everyone, even V.I himself, takes their orders from V.II.) This means that V.II is personally accountable for anything related to Arquebus on the planet.
- He's immediately introduced as condescending and disrespectful in the first mission with him, telling Raven they should feel privileged to be able to take part the Vesper's plan to take control of the Wall from the Rubicon Liberation Front. During said mission, Raven teams up with V.IV Rusty, another Vesper, only for V.II to order V.IV to withdraw, as reinforcements are in their way and he needs to take them out. Raven finishes the job by themselves, after which they receive a message from V.IV Rusty, who reveals that V.II Snail lied about the reinforcements and only wanted him to withdraw in the hopes that Raven would be killed, thus allowing Arquebus to swoop back in and get all the credit. Turns out this is a regular thing V.II does, hiring mercenaries only to screw them over so he doesn't have to pay them and allowing Arquebus to claim the glory.
- Raven receives a mission from the Rubicon Liberation Front to assassinate V.VII Swinburne, another Vesper. During the mission, Swinburne begs for his life and offer to pay more than the RLF offered if he's spared. Should Raven agree to spare him, V.II Snail decides he has brought shame upon the Vespers, and sentences him to re-education. Later in the game, players discover exactly what re-education entails, and it involves torturing and brainwashing the subject, effectively turning the subject into a zombie, giving Arquebus an AC pilot with all the obedience of an AI and all the skill of a human pilot. One log on the subject mentions "leaving the torso intact next time", giving an idea as to just how horrific the process is.
- Preparing for an excursion to find the Coral Convergence, Arquebus hires Raven to investigate and clear out a series of tunnels. At a certain point into the survey, V.II Snail contacts Raven directly and warns them that an unidentified AC is stalking them, and tell them to take it out. When the AC arrives, it turns out to be none other than V.IV Rusty, who was given similar orders by Snail to kill Raven, meaning Snail was counting on Raven and Rusty to kill each other. Raven wins the fight, but Rusty barely escapes with his life.
- When Raven discovers Institute City, they find another Vesper, V.VI Maeterlinck, alongside G3 Wu Huahai, who has defected from the Redguns. As they battle Raven, V.VI Maeterlinck tries to call for back up, but V.II Snail ignores her, as he was using her and G3 as cannon fodder, both for Raven and for the city's defenses. As Maeterlinck's AC overloads, her last words are a desperate cry for Snail to answer.
- Once Raven finds the Coral Convergence and exhausts themselves battling the city's final defense, V.II Snail jams their AC, revealing he had them do all the hard work for him just so he wouldn't have to risk his own neck getting the Coral, then takes them prisoner. He intended to kill them, but his superiors from Arquebus order him to re-educate them instead. They also capture Handler Walter at his base. If the player is pursuing the Alea Iacta Est ending, ALLMIND instead warns them about Snail's trap and sends them to take him out, and so his story ends here for that particular ending.
- If the player is not going for the aforementioned ending, Raven manages to escape capture in a junk AC Walter left for them just in case, and is left with two choices, to honor Handler Walter's dying wish to burn the Coral or to work with Ayre to free the Coral from Arquebus' control. Should the player choose the first option, this begins the Fires of Raven ending, in which they make one last stand against Arquebus. V.II Snail has minimal presence in this ending, simply giving orders to V.I Freud to ignore Raven and focus on the Coral. His final fate isn't explicitly disclosed, but it's safe to assume he burns with the rest of the planet.
- If the player instead chooses to help Ayre, beginning the Liberator of Rubicon ending, V.II Snail can be fought on the way to their objective, but he escapes either way. V.II Snail later returns in another mech, furious at Raven's continued interference in his plans. Throughout the game, he's referred to Raven as a mutt, but in this final battle he says he was wrong, and it seems about to compliment them. Instead, however, he says Raven is even worse than a mutt, calling them vermin. He refers to the population of Rubicon-3 as apes, and should the player get a game over here, he reveals his intention to subject said "apes" to re-education. His Villainous Breakdown starts to set in, furious at Raven for either ignoring him or trying to kill him, declaring himself to be Arquebus itself. He refers to V.IV Rusty as a traitor, which is rich for all the times he's thrown his own team mates under the bus, and refers to his superiors as dolts, showing he has no true loyalties to anyone but himself. When Raven finally defeats V.II Snail, players are treated to an extremely satisfying scream as Snail's AC overloads and he's roasted alive inside the cockpit.
- V.II manages to get one last crime tacked onto him posthumously in the Liberator of Rubicon ending, where it's revealed he subjected Handler Walter to re-education, and we finally get to see what that entails. Walter is barely coherent, able to recognize Raven but unable to resist attacking them. This is fate Snail wanted to induce on the entire population of Rubicon-3 just for standing up to him, and potentially subjected V.VII Swinburne to if you spared him. Raven is forced to put Walter down, and Walter manages to snap out of it just long enough to express his pride in Raven for managing to make a friend in Ayre before he dies.
Does he stack up?
The setting of Armored Core VI is dark. The planet of Rubicon-3 has become the primary battlefield of a universe-spanning corporate war, and there really aren't any heroes, as even the Rubicon Liberation Front is fighting for the control of Coral, and Ayre has no moral qualms against working with a mercenary.
On that note, the player character, Raven, is actually V.II's biggest competitor as far as heinousness goes. Raven frequently does dirtywork for anyone who pays them, even when said job involves attacking the same people who hired them earlier. The difference is, because Raven is a mercenary, this kind of behavior is expected of them, and nobody ever holds any hard feelings over it. V.II, meanwhile, as the leader of the Vespers, is expected to have some semblance of loyalty to his own men, but regularly sacrifices them because he sees it as the easiest solution to a problem.
The worst thing player can do is in the Fires of Raven ending, in which Raven helps Cinder Carla burn the Coral for a second time, this time completely, which once again sets the entire star system on fire, killing every last Rubiconian and any consciousnesses that might have been part of the Coral. They also have to fight their former allies V.IV Rusty and Ayre to the death. Yes, this is horrific, and unlike Carla or Walter, who asked them to do it, Raven knows perfectly well that sapient minds exist within the Coral. But in doing so, they put a permanent end to the war, ensuring nobody else suffers from the misuse of Coral ever again. As for betraying V.IV and Ayre, it was either that or betray Carla and spit on Handler Walter's dying wish, so it's a lose-lose situation. Also, I mentioned before that, in the Liberator of Rubicon ending, V.II intends to reeducate everyone on Rubicon, which is shown to be a Fate Worse than Death, so I think he still manages to be worse.
The last one whose heinousness needs to be considered is ALLMIND, who, in the Alea Iacta Est ending, releases Coral all over the universe, forcing countless lifeforms to evolve in a direction she deems fit. All that really needs to be said for the purposes of this discussion is that ALLMIND far, far exceeds V.II in terms of available resources as a near-omniscient AI with extremely detailed files on every single AC pilot on Rubicon-3. (And before anyone asks, ALLMIND's a Well-Intentioned Extremist, so she doesn't count.)
Finally, Armored Core VI takes place in a different continuity from every other game in the series, so there's no need to compare villains from those games.
Any mitigating concerns?
There are clues throughout the game that imply the first two playthroughs of the game are simulations created by ALLMIND to analyze Raven's abilities, and the third playthrough, in which the player can unlock the Alea Iacta Est ending, is the real thing. This is mainly backed up by the fact that ALLMIND seems to remember the events of the first two playthroughs. However, even if this is true, the player isn't forced to choose that particular ending, and can still choose either of the two standard endings, so V.II Snail can't just be written off as "his worst crimes were all part of a simulation and therefore they don't count."
Final thoughts?
V.II Snail is every-bit the slimy and cowardly bottom-feeder his callsign suggests, and the worst example of corporate greed in the game.
Easy keeper.
Aplogies again for the length. I honestly couldn't figure out what else to cut.
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As mentioned, re-education involves torturing and brainwashing the subject into an obedient slave, and judging by the line "leave the torso intact next time", involves severe mutilation. It made Walter attack Raven in the Liberator of Rubicon ending, who he deeply cares for.
EDIT: Unfortunately, I honestly don't know what else to cut.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on Jun 29th 2024 at 10:36:14 AM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!Okay. I'll try.
- He's an arrogant and condescending scumbag who has no respect for everyone, regularly comparing them to animals.
- He sends Raven to work alongside V.IV Rusty to take control of the Wall, but has Rusty pull out in the hopes Raven dies so Arquebus gets all the credit.
- If Raven lets V.VII Swinburne live, V.II Snail sentences him to re-education.
- Re-education involved torturing and brainwashing the subject into an obedient slave, and is implied to involve extensive mutilation. As shown with Handler Walter, if can even force someone to attack their closest friends. It's both A Fate Worse Than Death and And I Must Scream.
- He sicks Raven and V.IV Rusty on each other to try and get them both killed.
- He sacrifices V.VI Maeterlinck as cannon fodder, even when she begs him for help.
- In two of the endings, he lets Raven do all the hard work of finding the Coral and bringing down the defenses, then captures both them and Walter.
- In the Liberator of Rubicon ending, he insults both his subordinates and his superiors, demonstrating that he has no loyalties to anyone.
- Should the player get a game-over here, he vocalizes his intent to re-educate the entire population of Rubicon-3.
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Here, when he refers to "re-educating those apes", he's referring to the Rubiconians. Also, he isn't just sacrificing people, he's sacrificing his own subordinates who followed him and looked up to him.
Regarding the heinous standard, burning the Coral is just one ending, and it's done to put a permanent end to the war. In other words, it's a case of the needs of the many vs the needs of the few.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on Jun 29th 2024 at 11:08:54 AM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Doesn’t matter the intent; it’s still a heinous action and so contributes to the standard.
That being said, you claim in the EP one ending has him explicitly intend on “re-educating” everyone in Rubicon, which seems like the push he needs to be more than just a petty Hate Sink; where is this shown or revealed?
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
