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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Bluedeadredemption Since: Feb, 2021
#48051: Jun 28th 2024 at 1:31:05 PM

[up] As I said, what he does to Frank is Nightmarish, subjecting him to weeks, maybe months of mind breaking torment. I'd like to think that the solitary treatment alone would be horrific enough. Also haven't we approved candidates with low victim counts before, recently we had somebody with only victim, here Drumgoole subjects Frank to horrific treatment, and also hurts others as well. The candidate I proposed recently had a low victim count too, but makes up for it (albeit just barely) with sheer cruelty (Heller has been added to the drafts by the way, if I did that right).

Edited by Bluedeadredemption on Jun 28th 2024 at 4:52:09 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#48052: Jun 28th 2024 at 1:41:12 PM

Geeze, WEEKS? Okay, I THINK I'll lean yes.

And don't forget the potholes in the Drafts.

Edited by ACW on Jun 28th 2024 at 4:41:34 AM

Bluedeadredemption Since: Feb, 2021
#48053: Jun 28th 2024 at 1:50:59 PM

Do I take them out, like I said, it's my first CM writeup so I'm not quite sure how to do this.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#48054: Jun 28th 2024 at 2:07:39 PM

They should be there in the Drafts.

Bluedeadredemption Since: Feb, 2021
#48055: Jun 28th 2024 at 2:12:37 PM

Yeah, sorry about, I thought I did but I guess I didn't.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
coolmaneditor Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
Bluedeadredemption Since: Feb, 2021
#48058: Jun 28th 2024 at 2:20:14 PM

Also I forgot to ask this in the proposal itself, but how many C Ms does Sutherland have? I know je has a few others but who are they just to be sure? Also a more bizarre one, but has Stallone ever played a CM? Yeah I doubt he has and the thought of it kind of puzzles and would be against type for him, but he wouldn't the only one to play an against type CM, plus I'm just curious anyways. And hey, cover all bases right?

Edited by Bluedeadredemption on Jun 28th 2024 at 2:20:26 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#48060: Jun 28th 2024 at 3:14:00 PM

Sutherland also has Gen. Donald McClintock and President Stone.

I don't think Stallone has any.

Edited by ACW on Jun 28th 2024 at 6:14:09 AM

Bluedeadredemption Since: Feb, 2021
#48061: Jun 28th 2024 at 3:45:55 PM

Sutherland's got others too, including one where he teams up with a Stephen Lang CM.

I didn't think Stallone did (and in fact the thought of it is downright bizarre to me), I was just curious though. Buuuuuut... you maybe he has a technical where he plays demon possessing his character or one disguised as his character.

Like for examples of what I'm talking about, in Fallen (which I haven't seen but want to see) the CM demon big bad is played by a bunch of different actors in human form (Denzel Washington, Elias Koteas, James Gandolfini, and John Goodman are the most notable examples), or in Goblet of Fire how Brendan Gleeson plays the disguised Barty Crouch Jr. The candidate I proposed recently disguises as Drew Barrymore's character. And it's been awhile since I've seen Scream 3 (if you can even say that) but doesn't the big bad of that film disguise his voice to sound like others? So, does he or does he not technically count as one for actors like Neve Campbell and David Arquette and whoever else he pretended to be?

And in Angel Heart, Mickey Rourke played a hidden CM who has the memories of a private investigator and acts the P.I. for the majority of the film.

Also there is a candidate played by Robert Duvall I probably want to propose at some point from Joe Kidd. He doesn't seem to have any yet so maybe that will change that.

Not that Stallone necessarily does though, but like I said, just covering all bases.

Edited by Bluedeadredemption on Jul 21st 2024 at 1:43:51 AM

AmateurStorytime Just a starting content creator from Home Since: Mar, 2024
Just a starting content creator
#48062: Jun 28th 2024 at 3:52:13 PM

Yes to Drumgoole. Turns out Armored Core VI has three endings, and one can only be achieved on a third playthrough, so it's gonna take a while for my proposal, because I want to be thorough.

Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
volestud Since: May, 2024
#48063: Jun 28th 2024 at 4:22:27 PM

I counted the Princess votes and she had 7[tup] and 2[tdown] until this post, though he says he'll watch a longplay. For now that means she narrowly didn't pass unless he changes his mind.

Edited by volestud on Jun 28th 2024 at 4:24:24 AM

PeterVanHelsing Since: Sep, 2019
#48064: Jun 28th 2024 at 4:45:58 PM

I'm going to go ahead and vote [tdown] on Princess. I actually saw a playthrough and the tone is too comedic. Her actions are bad enough, but they're not taken seriously enough. Stuff like her having a newswoman killed in a fake accident or her killing her doctor are Played for Laughs, especially the latter since he spends his final breaths correcting her about the pronunciation of his name.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#48065: Jun 28th 2024 at 5:28:20 PM

Quickie for us

What's the work?

The Fade Out is a noir comic series by frequent collaborators Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips, set in the 40s and following a pair of washed-out screenwriters, Charlie and Gil, as they try to solve a murder mystery involving a starlet, while avoiding FBI agents and studio heads who will do anything to cover up the truth.

There's a few dickhead villains here and the Big Bad who committed the plot-relevant murder is almost nasty enough for the trope, but ultimately the worst villain in the story is more of a minor character:

Who is Al Kamp? What has he done?

  • One of the co-founders of Victory Street Pictures, Al Kamp is, in the present, a half-senile old creep who spends his time prowling around young women and verbally abusing everyone around him.
  • It soon enough comes out from our leads' investigations that Kamp is a despicable pedophile who molested not only several cast members of the popular "Krazy Kids" film series, but also countless other children—and worse, Kamp kept photographs and films of all of his deeds, enough to fill up an entire storage closet with evidence of his actions. He would sometimes tie naked young girls and women to trees in the middle of the woods and take pictures of their fear and torment, further indulging in his deviancy.
  • When Charlie and Gil close in on Kamp's actions and plan to force the old man to expose Victory Streets for covering up his actions, Kamp is promptly bumped off by his own partners—themselves not sharing Kamp's disgusting proclivities—and all his "collection" burned so that the truth can never come out.

Mitigating features?

Zilch, misogynist and pedophilic asshole with nothing more to him unlike most other villains.

Heinousness?

The killer who kicks off the plot is a serial blackmailer and sexual extortionist who murders a woman—one of Kamp's victims when she was a child at that!—for not letting herself be blackmailed by her molestation, but I'm unsure if he's bad enough himself.

Kamp, meanwhile, is a serial predator of countless children and the only one to really get focus in the story. Easily by far bad enough.

Final Verdict?

Simple keep

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#48070: Jun 28th 2024 at 5:43:24 PM

[tup] for Drumgoole and Kamp.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
TheCosmicCollector Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#48073: Jun 28th 2024 at 6:53:46 PM

Okay, so with an unanimous 18 [tup], here's my write-up for the Imperial Magistrates:

  • The Transformers: The Imperial Magistrates are a trio of judges that rule over the Quintessons and were the original creators of the Transformers. The Magistrates ruled over Cybertron twelve million years ago and used the early Cybertronians for slave labour and gladiatorial combat. After being chased off Cybertron by the Autobot rebellion, they spent the next few millennia exploiting interplanetary conflicts for their own profit while they waited to retake Cybertron. This included wiping out the plant-life on Alaxuu, and driving the inhabitants of Xetaxxis and Lanarq to near-extinction by escalating the war between the two planets. The Imperial Magistrates made a habit of executing their prisoners by feeding them to their Sharkticons, a fate that eventually befell the last two survivors of Lithone. In a scheme to destroy the Autobots, the Magistrates blew up their homeworld of Quintessa and tried to deactivate every Transformer across the universe. They later revived Optimus Prime and turned him into a sleeper agent that would lure the Autobot fleet into a deadly ambush. The Imperial Magistrates extended their cruelty beyond Cybertron by invading the planet Zamojin and setting their society back centuries to prevent them from reaching the stars.

For the formatting, I put them above Unicron since his entry is for the movie. I'm not sure if we should play around with that though. The movie aired between seasons two and three, but the Magistrates don't appear until the third season. One of them did appear in the movie, but Unicron appeared first and the Magistrate has a much smaller role compared to him.

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#48074: Jun 28th 2024 at 7:25:59 PM

[tup] for Warden Drumgoole and Al Kamp.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
ElJuaco Since: Aug, 2019
#48075: Jun 28th 2024 at 7:28:46 PM

[tup] Warden Drumgoole. Btw, R.I.P. Donald Sutherland

Edited by ElJuaco on Jun 28th 2024 at 7:29:14 AM


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