Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
to Koopa and Norman. The latter of whom's most villainous act is never actually becoming the Green Goblin.
Just wanna make sure my concerns about Maerlyn
don't get overlooked.
Incidentally, I added Veniss Underground to my to-read list. It sounds fascinating.
Yes to Koopa.
Also, read The Orientation Lore Book for Poppy Playtime. Not much to say but if you're curious, hmu!^^
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Can't speak for intentions, but as to agency, the proposal says the same primordial darkness that created him also made the Gan guy. Seems like the same argument for the Dark Presence, where the thing that created it also created a benevolent force.
Yes to Koopa (belated happy b-day!), Dacis, Dwight, Kilbourne, and Gobby.
I mean we'll it sounds like it's debatable how much of what his son Flagg does is Maeryln's idea. It does sound like he wanted the crimson king to exist to destroy everything.
Plus theirs everything else. From the human sacrifice
His son Flagg also has a 100 percent agency.
Edited by miraculous on Jun 20th 2024 at 11:36:18 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."So, I've recently had a string of failed proposals. Unfortunate, but hey it happens. However, I think I've finally found a really good one.
What's the work?
Everyone knows The Rescuers as an okay-but-not-great Disney animated film which got an Even Better Sequel called The Rescuers Down Under. What some people may not know, however, is that the Disney film was based on a series of children's books. And these books could get dark. Today's candidate is from Miss Bianca, the second book in the series.
Who is the Grand Duchess? What does she do?
The Grand Duchess is a cruel, elderly aristocrat who lives in a crystal palace called the Diamond Palace. Diamonds are a big motif with her, as her home is full of them. The palace is beautiful, and draws tourists from all over, who come just to see it sparkle in the sun. Inside, however, it is "cold indeed. Icy-cold. Diamond-cold." Here's a passage from the book:
Though some think of the Duchess as a witch, the book describes her as "worse than a witch." Her ladies-in-waiting are "some sort of dreadful, inhuman clockwork monsters." The reason for this is that, when she had human servants, she'd subject them to abuse. They were not allowed to smile (the Duchess took this as them mocking her), frown (they'd be accused of sulking), talk (they'd be called "chattering parrots"), or be silent (she'd call them "dumb beasts"). Her servants were not even allowed to move. She'd keep them standing in place for hours at a time, with the only movement allowed being a set of curtseys at the top of every hour, with the amount of curtseys corresponding to the time it is. After several of them faint from this, the Duchess dismisses them all and orders 12 mechanical servants to be created.
However, this causes the Duchess to realize that she had some use for humans after all. The robots are incapable of doing things like putting the Duchess' shoes on for her, polishing her diamonds, or putting her wigs away at night, things she is too vain to do herself. Most importantly, they cannot flinch when reprimanded or burst into tears when insulted. Thus, whenever she'd hear news of an orphaned little girl, she'd send Mandrake, her majordomo who only works for her because she's the only person who knows about an unspecified but terrible crime he committed, to abduct her and have her brought to the palace. The children would be forced to do the Duchess' bidding (and whipped if they messed anything up), be deprived of any and all affection, and take it when the Duchess hurled abuse at them for fun.
Her abduction of a little girl named Patience is what kicks off the plot of the book. Patience is only the latest in a long line of little girls abducted by the Duchess; the rest all died young. Patience is made to sleep in a dreadfully uncomfortable diamond-studded bed, and is not given a nightgown or toothbrush; for any and all hygiene practices she just has to dip a torn old rag into a jar of cold water. When Patience forgets to place the Dutchess' footstool as she sits on her throne, the Duchess whips her wrist, then does so again because she enjoys hearing her cry of pain.
When Miss Bianca sabotages the robots as part of her effort to rescue Patience, the Duchess demands Mandrake to call her coach. If she cannot be properly waited on in the palace, Patience and Mandrake will wait on her in her hunting lodge. The hunting lodge, in contrast to the garish Diamond Palace, is extremely plain. Patience is given a small cell in the basement to sleep in, instructed to stay in there until it's time to undress the Duchess for bed. Also at the hunting lodge are the Duchess' two bloodhounds, named Tyrant and Torment (subtle, huh?). That night, Miss Bianca and Patience run away from the lodge. The Duchess, usually a sound sleeper, awakes and demands Patience to be sent in to rub her feet. When Patience is nowhere to be found, the Duchess angrily demands Tyrant and Torment be sent off to find her and bring her back, "if not alive then dead." "Dead" is preferred by the Duchess, as evidenced by her telling Mandrake "I'd almost rather they brought her back alive." Though Mandrake is cruel, he shudders to think about what the Duchess would do to Patience if she were brought back alive.
And then? Nothing. Yeah, that's the last we see of her. Patience escapes, is taken in by a family of farmers, and lives happily ever after. Mandrake shows up in a later book, but the Duchess herself is a Karma Houdini who, by the end of the book, is presumably still free to kidnap more orphans to abuse and kill. But Bernard and Bianca get medals so it's okay.
Heinousness?
She's a hate-filled slavedriver who needed to get mechanical servants because her human ones physically could not take her abuse anymore. Then she was upset that the robots were unfeeling machines that she couldn't bully, so she started ordering orphaned children kidnapped so that she could enslave them and make their lives a living hell for fun. All but one of these children died under her "care." It isn't specified how many children whose deaths she is responsible for, nor whether they died by being worked to death or being torn apart by the dogs. However, at one point, Miss Bianca attempts to reason with the dogs before realizing that the thing she'd been sitting on is the gnawed shin-bone of a human child, so it's likely the latter (or a combination). Either way, heinousness is no issue.
Any redeeming qualities?
Lol no. She's a horrible human being through and through.
Verdict?
An easy keep.
Edited by rosewood47 on Jun 20th 2024 at 3:52:52 PM
Grand Duchess
- The Kandarian Demon is an ancient entity responsible for the creation of the Deadites and all the carnage that ensued. Residing in Kandar for centuries, the Kandarian Demon allows the Deadites, corrupted souls from Hell, to possess the living in order to take control of them, using them to kill all in their path, which led to the Deadite invasion of Kandar, and the creation of Evil Ash and all that followed. Reawakened in a modern day Tennessee forest, the Kandarian Demon unleashes a Deadite attack that sees the camper Cheryl raped by trees and the demise of all of Ash Williams’s friends. Returning after being reawakened again, the Kandarian Demon claims the life of Ash’s girlfriend Linda, using her corpse to frequently mock Ash as he tries to take over his body. Having turned researcher Raymond Knowby’s wife Henrietta into a Deadite, the Kandarian Demon claims the lives of several more people before finally taking shape, revealing to have kept the souls of his most recent victims on his cheek, and even saving a spot for Ash.
to the Grand Duchess.
Also even if you were to say that Madame Medusa passes baseline, she still has Percival to be compared to.
Edited by Evanpotter09 on Jun 20th 2024 at 8:42:41 PM
What, like it's hard?Yes to the Harper guys, Norman and the Duchess.
Week's been lighter than anticipated so welcome back Andrei... who's apparently the Dudley Smith of vampires:
- Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines:
- Andrei the Tzimisce is the Archbishop of the Los Angeles branch of the Sabbat. With no regard for the rules of vampire society, Andrei orders the creation of a Snuff Film, having a human viciously murdered and risking the exposure of their kind. In an effort to wage war on the Camarilla, Andrei uses his talents with the vile Vicissitude art to convert an army's worth of people—preying on pregnant women and in particular minorities out of prejudice—into pain-stricken monsters, the sewers of the city literally filled with them. When confronted by the fledgling, Andrei's base is shown to be a nightmarish place with furniture made from human flesh and he boasts of how it is nothing compared to his ancestral home before trying to kill them in an effort to unleash the Sabbat and their horrors upon Los Angeles.

Dark Goblin and the Harper boys.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."