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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#37676: Feb 17th 2024 at 3:06:01 PM

[tup]Kenjaku and Kaiko

Also his resoning for sparing Kamo is because “he doesn’t want to clean up the mess” wow how redeeming

Also the only reason he lets the citizens leave is because giving them a way out makes the barrier more effective on keeping people in which is stated twice

The Takaba one I can kinda if see but the him “sparing” others is flat out untrue

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Feb 17th 2024 at 3:33:25 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#37678: Feb 17th 2024 at 3:13:29 PM

Yes to the father, Bansi, and Kenjaku. No to the Monk guy; Lighty, Scraggle, and Ravok did a deep dive into the franchise a few years ago and covered pretty much every possible character who could count for this trope already. I did a rewatch of the series myself recently, and there's no one left in the show proper.

LarryT Since: Aug, 2023
#37679: Feb 17th 2024 at 3:16:21 PM

[tup] Tamashiki, Bansi, and Kenjaku

Vietnamese Mythology

  • Hồ Tinh is the most sadistic and vile of the man eating monsters faced by Lạc Long Quân. Using his shapeshifting powers to trick people into entering his cave, Hồ Tinh would torture them before killing and eating them, preferring to target children in some versions of the story. After Lạc Long Quân goes to stop him, Hồ Tinh tries to murdering him to.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#37680: Feb 17th 2024 at 3:32:29 PM

[tup]to Kenjaku

Bow to the Prototype
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#37681: Feb 17th 2024 at 3:46:12 PM

Also Kenjaku did not “leave Takaba alone” that is flat out untrue

He just got killed by Yuta before he coukd finish off Takaba

Also we know the merger does

It’s essentially a fate worse then death

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Feb 17th 2024 at 4:09:55 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#37682: Feb 17th 2024 at 4:33:17 PM

[tup] Kaenjaku and Kaiko.

[tdown] Karl, way too standard for a crime drama even allowing for the Hero Killer angle.

LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#37683: Feb 17th 2024 at 4:38:04 PM

What about the killer from Monk who killed almost every member of a jury one by one? Would he qualify?

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#37684: Feb 17th 2024 at 4:43:19 PM

The reason he became a murderer in the first place was so he could be with his mistress, which would indicate he genuinely cares for her.

LarryMullen Since: May, 2015
#37685: Feb 17th 2024 at 4:44:59 PM

Ok. I'll have to think long and hard before I propose another CM candidate since none of mine have worked out so far.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#37686: Feb 17th 2024 at 5:35:09 PM

Someone please do me a favor and move the appropriate items at Pending to Pending Writeups or Writeups needing to be moved.

Monstrel Mr Since: May, 2023
Mr
#37687: Feb 17th 2024 at 5:59:17 PM

[tup] to Tamashiki Shigaraki. You know they're evil when they disgust even AFO and root for the Big Bad to end him.

Hey guys.
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#37688: Feb 17th 2024 at 6:00:00 PM

[up][up] Done.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
moctezuma2000 Since: Sep, 2018
#37689: Feb 17th 2024 at 6:04:14 PM

  • Disturbed's "Land of Confusion": The Fat Cat embodies the worst of war profiteering, ordering his army to unleash mass death and destruction across the world purely for monetary gain. Enjoying wine and cigars while watching his war machine bring hell on earth, his atrocities force the the Guy to lead a violent revolution against his tyranny, which the fat cat tries to crush personally once the people he has caused suffering kick in his door.

Edited by moctezuma2000 on Feb 17th 2024 at 10:04:40 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#37690: Feb 17th 2024 at 6:06:57 PM

Another from the Saint Moore series:

What has "Henry Coleman"/Hans Kroleg done?

  • Villain of the season 5 episode "Locate and Destroy." "Henry Coleman" is another war criminal posing as an honest businessman in the present day. When Simon Templar thwarts an attempt on "Coleman's" life, he learns the attempted assassin is part of a group of Israeli agents who have a very good reason for wanting "Coleman" dead.
  • Determined to keep his Dark Secret hidden at any costs, "Coleman" orders the three Israeli agents following him murdered; two of them are killed, and the third only survives by a fluke. Furthermore, "Coleman" figures out that one of his own mooks is an Israeli mole, and he has the man dragged out to an isolated mine and tortured by his sadistic Dragon Karsh. The mook is beaten to an inch of his life with a metal pipe, and although he escapes, he nevertheless expires from the torture shortly after. Before this, though, he exposes "Coleman's" dirty little secret: he's a Nazi who escaped justice.
  • Specifically, "Coleman"—his real name Hans Kroleg—was Hitler's deputy minister of mines, and responsible for a horrific massacre back in Poland in WWII. He rounded up 5,200 innocent Polish Jews, mostly women and children, forced them into a dark and dirty mine, then blew up the entrance, burying every single one of them alive.
  • Kroleg captures Simon and the Girl of the Week, threatening to torture the former the same way he did his own treacherous mook, before he reveals his plans to drop both her and Simon down an abandoned mine shaft where their bodies will never be found. Unfortunately for Kroleg, his own wife, whom he's duped for decades about his criminal past, comes in, and disgusted by what her husband has turned out to be, shoots him dead.
Any mitigating factors?
  • Nothing. He never expresses any genuine affection for his own wife and only married her to prop up his own life as "Henry Coleman." Certainly he never expresses any remorse about deceiving her for their entire marriage, which is the catalyst that kills him.
Heinous standard?
  • Second only to Dr. Julius in terms of sheer body count, and it's of the "horrific Nazi massacre" variety. Easy pass.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#37691: Feb 17th 2024 at 6:19:08 PM

Assuming there's enough onscreen, yes.

Can we get a comparison of all the Moore series villains?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ColdNovemberRain89 Since: Aug, 2021
#37693: Feb 17th 2024 at 7:09:24 PM

So, six months ago, I did an effort post on Yomi Hellsmile, and he was unanimously voted in. However, he was immediately cut because there was some confusion in regards to the twist that he's a clone, and I didn't distinguish the clone's actions from the original. Because clones in Rain Code are perfect copies complete with their memories and personality, I thought both the original and the clone counted as the same entity.

So, should I just redo the effort post and specifically talk about the actions of Yomi's clone? Or does him having the memories of his clone parent include the original's vile acts?

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#37694: Feb 17th 2024 at 7:56:25 PM

I don't recall if I asked before, if I did I am sorry, but how is this treated exactly? Is it treated like its a straight resurrection or does the work acknowledge them as separate characters?

Bow to the Prototype
TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#37695: Feb 17th 2024 at 8:37:38 PM

Hey guys, been a while.

So I have a question: are characters from fan-made fixing character videos viable? The ones I have in mind are from a youtuber who tries to fix certain Game of Thrones characters, and I have two candidates in mind, as well as one other for the MB thread.

RyanPuffs She/Her from Big Bill Hell's Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
She/Her
#37696: Feb 17th 2024 at 9:06:54 PM

Hello, I've written up the entry for Bryce. Big thanks to YourBoyRussell for the collaboration getting the proposal set up.

Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth: Bryce Fairchild is the leader of Palekana and overseer of Hawaii. Having stolen the right of Palekana sage from the Mililani family decades ago, he discovers that a surviving member, Lani, is alive and under Akane’s care. Wanting any evidence of his false status erased, he sends numerous Hawaiian gangs after Akane to kidnap and kill Lani. He runs Nele Island as a training ground for brainwashing, morphing children from the Palekana orphanage into Child Soldiers and having followers kill each other as a test of loyalty. Teaming up with Masataka Ebina, he intends to also use Nele Island as a dumping ground for nuclear waste, which would cause severe damage to the surrounding environment, and would condemn numerous ex-yakuza sent by Ebina to slow deaths of radiation poisoning. He uses his own followers as expendable, as they are conditioned to take their own lives to serve him, use themselves as suicide bombers, and he kills one of them to take their gun during the final battle with him.

Profile picture by @BoxNazrin on Bluesky. Give her a follow!
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#37697: Feb 17th 2024 at 9:25:41 PM

RE: Clones

To Cold:

I had a similar thing with Seijiro Miyata, but easier as really, I only EP-ed the original person because his clones were shown as their own individuals—some with clean cut mitigant traits—(tought obviously following the will of the original, treating the Clones as a organization created by Miyata)

How it is treated? Either you can EP-ed both of them as a shared entry or split them if they are treated as separate individuals

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 17th 2024 at 12:33:32 PM

Watch me destroying my country
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#37698: Feb 17th 2024 at 9:36:01 PM

Switching to [tup] for Shigaraji, and one for Hans Kroleg as well.

[tdown] for Karl Torini.

[up][up][up] If the videos have enough of a narrative to them I think you're good.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#37699: Feb 17th 2024 at 10:47:41 PM

Hey, ya'll. I just rewatched A Haunting at Silver Falls, that horror film I did an EP for a while ago. At the time, I'd said one character likely didn't count despite being a Serial Rapist, however I had either not watched closely enough or had forgotten scenes by the time I could do the EP (as I'd watched the movie before the threads reopened). Should I do a new whole new EP or dig up the old and share the new info?

For what it's worth, Anne still def counts. I just think Kevin warrants another look.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#37700: Feb 18th 2024 at 1:19:15 AM

[tup] Kroleg and I switch yes to Tamashiki

[up] We normally do new EP in cases like that.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Feb 18th 2024 at 3:31:09 AM


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