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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#3626: Feb 6th 2023 at 10:56:41 AM

I'm with Lighty. As much of an addict I am for the show (My PFP and name are based on Luz for Collector's Sake!) I want us to hold of until The series finale... (I really wish it wasn't but I digress) So can we do that? Pretty please?

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Fireball246 Since: Jan, 2023
#3627: Feb 6th 2023 at 10:59:29 AM

[up] Of course we can, Forgo. I was just asking a genuine question on whether or not anyone else qualifies that’s all.

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3628: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:08:21 AM

Which games are Astaroth in?

Astaroth is in SoulCalibur, SoulCalibur II SoulCalibur III, Soulcalibur Legends SoulCalibur IV, and Soulcalibur VI.

Also, Arawn? I'm pretty sure you're over the EP limit now, that still applies even if a candidate is downvoted.

I am? Huh. Alright, let's see...

The effortposts I have are for Richie Hoarderson (effortpost and writeup approved), Cervantes de Léon (effortpost downvoted and — to my knowledge — past the expiry date), Astaroth (effortpost approved and writeup pending approval), Tira - Original Timeline (effortpost downvoted, expiration date 02/07/2023), Won Gabok (effortpost upvoted, writeup pending 02/07/2023) and Tira - Reboot Timeline (effortpost downvoted, expiration date 02/09/2023).

The rules state that "each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of two works at a time". All the characters I've proposed come from the Soul Series and so far as I can see there isn't a limit for the number of characters from an individual work that can be proposed... though I'm getting the sense that that was the intended meaning behind that clause in the rules section. If so, I apologize for misinterpreting it — though it might be worth rewording the clause a little to make that more apparent.

Since my current active posts are Astaroth (who seems to have been removed from the CM Pending Votes And Writeups page), Original Tira, Won Gabok, and Reboot Tira, I don't think I'm quite over the "four active effortposts per troper" limit, but right on it. Regardless, I will postpone posting an effortpost for Kunpaetku for a few days.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 6th 2023 at 11:09:31 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#3629: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:14:16 AM

Next up, from The Closer 2-parter "Living Proof":

Who is Zoran Antunovich? What has he done?

A Serbian war criminal who has gone under the radar for years following atrocities committed against the Albanians, Zoran Antunovich was part of the elite Serbian squads who decimated entire villages, earning the ominous nomer "Ghosts" from their atrocities.

Zoran's most infamous crime...well, I'll let a witness speak for himself:

Shariq Marku, speaking to his grandson Skander: It was raining just like this the night they were coming to our village. The ghosts. I took Aunt Sara, Uncle Armand, and your mother...and we ran to the grocery shop owned by my nephew. There was a basement there where we could hide with others. And there was baby. She starts to cry. We try to make her stop, because upstairs, we could hear the men looking for us. But she only cries louder. And that is how they found us. Three of them with flashlights come downstairs. They took women away...and start shooting us. I turned to protect my son. And they shoot me in back. I fall, and they shoot Armand two times in chest. He falls on top of me. And I am still...underneath my son...listening..as all breath goes out of him."
Skander: "What about the baby girl?"
Shariq: "...she no longer cries."
Skander: "What happened to Mom and Aunt Sara? When the men took them away?"
Shariq: "Terrible things. Terrible...terrible things."

Zoran and two other soldiers found the Marku family and others with them, massacred several of them down to an infant girl, and viciously raped and tortured all of the women—notably Anila and Sara Marku—with a heated knife, leaving scars all over the Marku girls' bodies as well as elsewhere. He left the entire village for dead along with the Marku family, but luckily Shariq managed to survive and save his daughters, fleeing to America.

When the tides of war began to turn in the area, Zoran decided to flee. He took the identity of Armand Marku, one of his own victims, and fled the country, marrying activist worker Joan to further set up his new life. Zoran remained under the radar for years...until by sheer coincidence, he was spotted by Sara in California, and she told Anila and Shariq about it. Shariq finds Zoran and attacks him, screaming at him what a monster he is for what he did to the Marku family and stealing Armand's name...Zoran pushes Shariq into traffic to kill and silence him, continuing to play an innocent when the Major Crimes Division approaches him.

Tracking down Anila, Zoran slashes her throat, hoping to silence all loose ends from his time in the war. He learns that Anila has a son, Skander—a product of his own raping of her—and he uses his status as Anila's "estranged brother" Armand to get close to Skander and manipulate the location of Sara out of him. Zoran then attacks and murders Sara just as he did Anila.

Eventually, his past and lies catch up with him, and though he continues to feign innocence, Brenda point-blank calls him out as intending to murder even his own son Skander to completely eliminate ties to his past, and he is exposed and charged with the Marku murders. Keeping up his facade and proclaiming to love Joan even as he's hauled away, a disgusted Joan promising Zoran that he'll never see her, their kids, or Skander again.

Mitigating features?

Zoran's ultimately made of lies. The bastard uses his own massacre of the Markus as his tragic backstory to try to gain sympathy before he's exposed. Brenda points out that he's a manipulative, consummate liar who comes up with them on the fly, and even as he tries to explain with excuses and reasons for his actions that paint him as a total innocent they are all stripped away to reveal a monstrous, purely evil war criminal trying to escape justice. He snarls "I loved Anila and I love Skander, I'd never hurt them!" but Brenda tears it all down and deduces that his next step was to murder Skander himself, to which Zoran just gives a smug smirk and taunts her.

His final interaction with Joan as he's being hauled away by the police has him maintaining his innocence to her even after he's been exposed and proclaiming "I've always loved you, we'll get through this!", but Joan doesn't buy it for a second and tells him through clenched teeth that his family is abandoning him and he'll never see any of them again. Nothing about Zoran or his feelings for Joan are played as genuine, just part of his mask that he's using to try to escape his past of horrible nastiness, and he noticeably lets the mask drop earlier in the episode when Joan questions something he says and his "affable innocence" vanishes for a split second to bark at her with annoyance.

Heinousness?

He's a vile war criminal who is indicated to have been a village annihilator, and the story Shariq relates is compounded with the shrieks of innocents dying and babies wailing. Zoran shot Armand, Shariq and others—including an infant girl—before raping and torturing a group of women that included Anila and Sara, leaving all of them for dead. In the present he hunts down and murders Anila and Sara, and is fully indicated to be planning to bump off Skander too to destroy the last link to his past.

He's a very unique customer for this series.

Final Verdict?

Easy yes.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3630: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:15:12 AM

Yeah, I was pretty much saying that we'll have for the Owl House to finish, and I definitely agree with not bringing it up for now.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3631: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:17:47 AM

[tup] to Zoran and agreeing with everyone here to wait until Owl House has ended before we decide on anything

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3634: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:23:51 AM

Alright, the sounds are enough to take it out of Offscreen Villainy, and he seems uniquely heinous. Yes to the Balkan Bastard.

I'll have my own keeper from The Closer (thanks Ravok smile)

Edited by ACW on Feb 6th 2023 at 2:26:26 PM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#3635: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:24:34 AM

[tup] to Danny Jones, Dhuran and Zoran Antunovich.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#3636: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:25:26 AM

[tup] Zoran Antunovich

Would you recommend the series?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#3638: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:30:45 AM

Yes to Zoran.

The Antagonists of the current arc of SPY×FAMILY last appeared 2 weeks ago, and are out of the picture, but the arc hasn't concluded. Should I bring forth an evaluation today, or wait until the arc's end proper?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3639: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:39:38 AM

[tup]zoran.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3640: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:45:26 AM

Now that we are at 8 and the first entries due to is coming soon-ish I created the sandbox for Monster The Closer, just so we can have it around for later. I already added a header, but does anyone have a quote we can use?

I decided not to include the [Image] thing since we are now trying to not purposefully scour for an image. Though if someone has a good one they can bring it to Image Pickin.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3641: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:48:23 AM

Sky: If by out of the picture you mean definitely won't return, now's probably fine.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#3642: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:50:06 AM

W: They have all been arrested.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#3643: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:59:31 AM

Hm, I would say wait until the end of the arc just to be absolutely certain in case they get a scene or two afterwards in prison or something.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#3644: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:05:17 PM

Ok, I'll hold off a few weeks.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#3645: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:24:31 PM

I'm keeping a collection of potential quotes that we can run by when all the candidates come through...in the meantime though, I've already got two pretty easy pics of Stroh that work:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/phillipstroh.png

Or

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/phillipstroh2.png

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3646: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:31:23 PM

I like the second. First looks maybe a bit to complicated.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#3647: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:35:16 PM

Either of those will work definitely.

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#3648: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:37:40 PM

I actually like the first. Mind if I start an IP thread with both?

I should also note that quotes aren’t compulsory either.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Feb 6th 2023 at 3:43:43 PM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#3650: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:50:50 PM

@Guma: Go right ahead, I'll chime in there when the time comes. I too kind of dig the first more, tbh. But I'm good with either.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

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