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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

ElJuaco Since: Aug, 2019
#36301: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:08:02 PM

I'm not suggesting that Flint is worse than Scroop. What I mean is that Flint seems to have a bigger bodycount than Silver's first mate.

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#36302: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:10:33 PM

Gonna abstain on Jethro. Also fine with Palps having a split writeup, though the two Galactic Conquest ones could be merged.

[up] He might have a bigger one, but even then he has much higher resources compared to Scroop anyways so I really don't think that would hurt him.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#36303: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:16:46 PM

Honestly, the bullet points for Confederate Uprising and Dark Reign of the Empire should be merged.

moctezuma2000 Since: Sep, 2018
#36304: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:17:47 PM

Yes to Cruella, Mr. Nasty and Jethro

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#36305: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:21:37 PM

I'm not suggesting that Flint is worse than Scroop. What I mean is that Flint seems to have a bigger bodycount than Silver's first mate.

Juaco that is a Distinction Without a Difference for saying Flint is worse than Scroop

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
ElJuaco Since: Aug, 2019
#36306: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:22:10 PM

What's that? I'm relatively new here.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#36307: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:34:20 PM

[up] Juaco, you’ve been around here since 2020, maybe even longer.

Abstain on Jethro

It's Spooky Month!
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#36308: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:40:30 PM

Ok, I am back. It was a tough time for me but I will happily upvote this version of Cruella; she sounds nasty! And tentatively upvote Scroop too.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#36309: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:48:46 PM

[tup] for Afton (shocker) and Cruella.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#36310: Jan 31st 2024 at 12:58:14 PM

BTW I've watched all the long plays of Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League. So pm if your interested in my thoughts.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElJuaco Since: Aug, 2019
#36311: Jan 31st 2024 at 1:03:04 PM

I have been around here since 2019, but my interest on the Complete Monster thing has caught my attention more recently.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#36312: Jan 31st 2024 at 1:13:35 PM

Let's do this for Palps:

  • Battlefront II (2005): Emperor Palpatine's evil casts a shadow over all of the game's events:
    • "Rise of the Empire": After creating the 501st Legion to serve his personal interests, Palpatine begins preparing for his Empire by having them steal the power core for the Death Star. After General Grievous's death, Palpatine executes Order 66, having Vader and the 501st kill every Knight, Master, guard, and child aligned with the Jedi. With full power secured, Palpatine crushes any attempt at rebellion, including massacring the Queen of his home planet of Naboo and her security force and forcing the 501st to kill an army of rival Clones alongside the Kamino leadership. After having the 501st put down a Death Star prison riot by killing every prisoner involved, Palpatine works to crush the Rebellion through the Death Star; when the Death Star is destroyed, Palpatine responds by having the Rebel forces on Yavin IV massacred, then tracks the Rebellion to Hoth to crush them once and for all.
    • "Galactic Conquest"'s "The Confederate Uprising" & "Dark Reign of the Empire": If the Confederacy wins the game, Darth Sidious leads his forces in killing everyone associated with the Republic, including his loyal Clone army, the Jedi, and Anakin Skywalker, to take power with his Empire. If the Empire wins the game, Palpatine's Empire crushes the Rebellion, with his army destroying Endor and its population while Palpatine forces Luke Skywalker to kneel before him.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#36314: Jan 31st 2024 at 1:24:58 PM

Close enough

  • How I Became A Superhro: Mathias "Naja" Najarovski is a childish man who is making the drugs that gives people super powers. Once a child whose parents had his powers removed, Naja killed them in retaliation and became obsessed with trying to recreate having powers. For this, Naja has super humans abducted so he can slowly drains all of their blood out of them until they die to create the super drug. Naja then sells the drugs on the streets causing a wave of violent crimes. When he learns Lieutenant Moreau has powers Naja orders his men to capture him to drain him as well, and also abducts the 15 year old Lily to drain her as well.

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#36315: Jan 31st 2024 at 1:53:18 PM

[tup] to TV series Cruella De Vil, Cruella De Vil. If she doesn't scare you, no evil thing will.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#36317: Jan 31st 2024 at 2:01:38 PM

Yeah that works, thanks ACW and good work again STAR!

Scroop's 3 day period has come and the upvotes more than double than the down, so we can put this one to bed for this thread. Scrags will have the write-up shortly.

EDIT: Speak of the devil!

  • Treasure Planet: Scroop is the most bloodthirsty member of Silver's mutineers. Completely lacking in his boss' standards and redeeming qualities, Scroop introduces himself nearly killing fifteen-year-old cabin boy Jim Hawkins for mouthing off to him. When first mate Mr. Arrow reins Scroop in, Scroop pays him back later by sadistically cutting the lifeline keeping Arrow from falling into a black hole, then pins the blame on Jim just to hurt him even more. Scroop constantly seeks to undermine Silver's authority over him so he can kill off the crew of the R.L.S. Legacy, and meets his end attempting to doom Jim to a slow death in the vacuum of the Etherium: "do say hello to Mr. Arrow!"

Edited by Ravok on Jan 31st 2024 at 2:32:25 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#36318: Jan 31st 2024 at 2:51:33 PM

[tup] to Mr Nasty, William Afton, Cruella De Vil, Chris McLean and Blaineley.

Okay got a quick on. Murder Is Easy is a recent and pretty fun BBC adaptation of Agatha Christies novel of the same name, with a few key changes to the overall plot. It stars David Jonsson as Luke Obiako Fitzwilliam, a young wealthy and educated Nigerian man who has accepted a prestigious diplomatic post in Whitehall (this being 1954 Nigeria is still part of the British empire).

However, whilst traveling to London he has a chance encounter with Lavinia Pinkerton, a sweet kind old lady who discloses to him that she has uncovered the horrible secret that a Serial Killer is active in her village and is traveling to London to alert Scotland Yard before they kill again. However, once in London Lavinia is killed before she can get to the police.

Unable to let the prospect lie, Luke travels to Wynchwood-Under-Ashe, a seemingly idyllic country village that carries deep secrets and scars, hoping to uncover the killer.

Our candidate of course being said killer, I give you Honoria Waynflete.

Who Is she:

On the surface Honoria simply seems a friendly and unassuming local spinster, who works at the local manor house owned by the self-made, self-righteous egotistical bore Lord Gordon Ragg of Whitfield, as his archivist and antiquarian.

However, Honoria is far more than she seems. Before the war she was in fact the wealthy daughter of the Manor’s former owner. Whilst life seemed perfect, she utterly hated it suffocated under her father’s restrictions. Thus, Honoria planned to run away to Cambridge University where she had secretly won a scholarship and finally have her freedom, confiding only in her friend Gordon (at the time a simple worker on the estate).

However, her father intimidated him into giving her and he forced her to come home. Enraged Honoria choked to death her pet Canary. Matters only got worse for her, the war destroyed her families’ fortunes, leading to her losing the manor to Gordon (who made his own money through war profiteering). Utterly despising Gordon now in her belief, he had stolen everything from her, Honoria came up with an utterly wicked plan for revenge.

What Does She Do:

Deciding she could not be content until he suffered everything, she felt she had suffered, Honoria took to murdering everyone who insulted or slighted Gordon. First targeting the kindly Lydia Horton (who had criticised Gordon for his plans to build luxury new homes rather than invest in the existing village) whilst she is recovering from an illness, by poisoning the Tea Gordon gifted her with arsenic.

However, despite Lydia claiming she was being poisoned, everyone dismissed her death as a tragic relapse. A few weeks later Honoria happened to catch the local pub landlord Harry Carter who had also criticised Gordon’s plans, having fallen into the empty canal whilst drunk. Thus, she opened the gate, causing Carter to be swept away by the waters and drowned.

Then a few days later she happened to catch the window washer Tommy Pierce mocking Gordon whilst doing his duties. Thus, whilst his back was turned Honoria pushed him off the side, causing him to fall death. However, Lavinia somehow figured that Honoria was behind the murders. Following her to London, Honoria pushed Lavinia into the path of a speeding car and then lied to the police that it had been Gordon’s rolls that deliberately ran her over (unfortunately for her, her testimony wasn’t investigated).

A few days later back in the village to Honoria’s frustration both Carter and Pierce’s deaths were also ruled accidents by the coroner. Taking advantage of him getting a splinter, Honoria attempted to murder Reverent Humbleby (Gordon’s loudest critic) by treating his wound with iodine she’d spiked with sepsis (having got Lavinia’s cat infected for the process). However, whist sickened Humbleby managed to pull through.

Having taken to employing Gordon’s ex-maid Amy Gibbs, that night Honoria broke into her room and switched her medicine with red hair dye, causing Amy to agonisingly choke to death. With Honoria playing the part of merely a traumatised bystander. But once again the death was dismissed as an accident.

Then at the tennis, she got her second chance to kill Humbleby, spiking his drink with Strychnine, which polished him off.

Tensions within the village rising, Honoria took advantage of Gordon’s chauffer Rivers calling out the lack of interest in all these deaths at the townhall meeting and practically accusing Gordon of being involved. Thus, sneaking up behind him, she bludgeoned Rivers to death with a broken branch.

Then at Gordon’s engagement party she infected Doctor Thomas scarf with hemlock, killing him for not noticing her murder pattern. This being enough to finally bring in the law’s attention, Honoria continued to point Luke’s suspicions at Gordon.

Thus, Honoria attempted to play her final tactic, gifting Gordon an ornate African dagger. She then stole the dagger and drugged Gordon’s fiancé Bridget Conway leading her out into the woods, there she planned to kill Bridget with the dagger, Gordon would find the body (as she sent an invitation for him) and it would be the final straw ensuring he was blamed for the murders, publicly disgraced, imprisoned and finally hanged.

However, Bridget realising Honoria was the real killer had only been faking being drugged and managed to disarm her. Overpowering her Honoria attempted to strangle her flat out to death, but was thwarted by Luke, who’s own plan to expose Gordon had led to him figuring out she was the real killer and was taken away by the police.

Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:

Okay now to be fair Honoria is more complex than her book counterpart and does have a more justifiable grievance against Gordon (who wants to destroy him simply for breaking off their engagement, simply because he was disturbed by witnessing signs of psychopathy), as he was responsible for her losing her one chance to escape a life she hated.

However, her revenge plan is so utterly disproportionate that it destroys any justification she could have. Whilst granted some of her victims were somewhat unpleasant themselves, none of them flat out deserved to die.

Apart from that Honoria has none. There is no one she cares about. All her seeming care is faked, with her boasting how well she managed to hide her contempt for everyone, especially Gordon.

Honoria makes it clear in her final confession, that for all her desire for revenge, she enjoyed inflicting each and every death, declaring him much she utterly hates every single person in the village for not recognising her as greater than being simply local spinster. She even looks overjoyed at the end, revelling in them recognising her as mass murderer she is…right before it dawns on her she’s heading straight for the gallows.

Whilst acknowledging her past was tragic, the narrative settles on presenting Honoria as a smug, selfish, and bitter woman who is stuck in past.

Heinous Standard:

Eight murders, several of which are made clear to be incredibly brutal and painful. All as part of a twisted revenge plan to ensure someone else ends up disgraced and executed (who as much as they are a smug, stupid, pompous git still doesn’t deserve to die). I’d say Honoria clears the standard easily.

Conclusion:

Overall I think she’s a keeper, her backstory’s pain does give you a moments pause (credit to Sinead Matthews for a great performance), but when you get down to it nothing she does is remotely justified and she’s overall a vindictive murderer.

Still what do you think.

Edited by MGD107 on Jan 31st 2024 at 3:06:36 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
MrInk99 Fernando David Páez Contreras from Mérida, Venezuela Since: Jul, 2021
Fernando David Páez Contreras
#36321: Jan 31st 2024 at 3:47:25 PM

[tup] Cruella De Vil… first Sykes from Oliver & Company, then Scroop from Treasure Planet, and now Cruella. How many posthumous Disney Villains will become C Ms next?

crafterforever223 Since: Dec, 2022
#36322: Jan 31st 2024 at 3:48:54 PM

Alright, here is my writeup for Norman:

Obsession: Norman Derringer is the abusive ex-husband of Maya Di Martino and the one responsible for all her trauma. Initially seeming like the perfect man, he showed his true colors after they got married, physically abusing her to the point where she had a miscarriage. After she was able to work up the courage to leave him, Norman became a serial killer and serial rapist known as the L.A. Ripper, preying on women who resembled Maya. Initially only refraining from going after her because he doesn't want her to think he cares, Norman's obsession gets the better of him, and he tracks down and brutally tortures Maya's older sister Elena to get Maya's location, killing Elena after he gets this information. Arriving in Royal Woods, he breaks into Maya's house and attempts to rape and murder her, and attempts to kill Lincoln when he intervenes to try to save Maya from Norman.

Edited by crafterforever223 on Jan 31st 2024 at 3:53:48 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
crafterforever223 Since: Dec, 2022
#36325: Jan 31st 2024 at 4:06:24 PM

[up] I keep trying to add it, but for some reason, it won't let me, saying my editing privileges are suspended. If someone else could add it that would be great.


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