Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
As I also cover in the heinous standard, Trevor's nastier stuff is usually jokingly implied with Dreyfuss still being one of the few confirmed and explicit rapists in the whole series — and Trevor's infamous torture scene was one mission that just consists of a Jack Bauer Interrogation Technique played for horror — compared to Dreyfuss' drawn out and sexual mutilation of Leonora for days with even the implications of necrophilia.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."PENDING:
- The Bill: Craig Sutton
(Atlantis)
- The Foreigner (2017): Hugh McGrath
(Atlantis)
- Pete
(Crow)
- Uranos
(Mrph)
- Oliver & Company: Sykes
(Ravok)
- Taxi Driver (2021): Bishop
(Rm74)
Yes to Sherwood; the forced Rape by Proxy is what does it.
Dreyfuss...as bad as the torture may be, even if it's onscreen, is ONE torture victim, brutal it may be, enough for GTA?
Edited by ACW on Jan 29th 2024 at 5:45:38 AM
for the Phantom Orb.
Bliss and Sven
Best Granddad Sherwood
on Dreyfuss. His crimes pale in comprassion to Trevor and we have at least one other Serial Killer with Eddie Low from GTA IV.
Edit: Would appricate some more votes for my latest candidate
. So far I counted one Abstain, two
and three
Edited by NTG on Jan 29th 2024 at 2:52:33 AM
It being arguably the worst torture-rape-murder in the entire franchise does Dreyfuss a lot of favors, tbh. And again, what he does to her family is also extra fucked and adds them to the victim list for the level of Mind Rape involved.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I don't really personally agree that should be a problem. We get the plethora of details, we see the crime scene pictures, there are whole articles and websites dedicated to this murder because even in-universe it's regarded as an atrocity. We have pictures of her raped, tortured mutilated body after days of abuse. That is plenty visceral for me. If the issue is just "not heinous enough for me" that's fine and I agree it's a tough series to breach the standard, but the "visceralness" isn't at all an issue, IMO. Not with the detail we get.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!![]()
5: I will also say I don't see the point in comparing Eddie Low to Dreyfuss. Not all Serial Killers operate the same, and even when compared to Eddie, I still say Dreyfuss wins out on the quality.
Edited by Beast on Jan 29th 2024 at 3:06:38 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."For my next:
What's the work?
Legion is a Marvel superhero series created by Fargo showrunner Noah Hawley, following the weird, weird exploits of reality warping, mentally ill mutant David Haller as he is conscripted by a group of mutants to train his powers.
Those who know the show certainly remember that the godawful Big Bad, the Shadow King, has an...odd ending where after 3 seasons of being pure evil, he pulls something of a Heel–Face Turn and parts ways with the heroes peacefully because the writers didn't know how to beat him because of reasons!
Buuut there's another take on the King that doesn't have this issue.
Who is Amahl Farouk/the Shadow King? What has he done?
- In "Chapter 14", aka Season 2 Episode 6, we see an entire multiverse of David Hallers whose lives took different paths than the main canon one, be it a David who is a homeless vagrant; a David who is lobotomized; or a David who has a happy, well-adjusted life.
- The throughline in them all is that David had his lifelong torment of the Shadow King living in his mind, and dealt with it in different ways. One David we see, though...has lost to the Shadow King, utterly corrupted and driven to villainy by his presence as the Shadow King uses David to achieve his own goals.
- Using telepathy to rise to the top of a company by stealing company secrets and manipulating others, David/Shadow King becomes the richest, most powerful man in the world, spreading his psychic ability across the globe and "uniting" every man, woman and child under his singular rule, to be controlled at his will and leisure. He keeps women around him constantly in the same manner as the mainline!Shadow King kept Lenny Busker as a Sex Slave. He also keeps his former corporate boss as an assistant who he verbally and psychologically abuses simply because he knows she hates him, and he likes forcing her to stick around so he can torment her.
- Further shown to casually torture mainline!David's beloved sister Amy and cause her to bleed from her nose when she makes a request of him, David is last gazing into a mirror and seeing only the Shadow King reflecting back with a triumphant look, revealing just how under his sway David truly is.
Mitigating features?
Nah, this Farouk doesn't have the Heel–Face Turn and never comes to love David as the mainline one, instead just valuing him for power.
Heinousness?
It's an AU where Shadow King is the only villain, and in it he completely breaks and corrupts David, then props himself up as the ruler of mankind who keeps them all under his constant surveillance and control while torturing those who disappoint him and keeping a harem of women who are indicated to be mentally swayed to his will as slaves.
Final Verdict?
Nothing can soften the weirdness of OG!Farouk being redeemed, but this one counts.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

I frankly still don't think that's enough by GTA standards.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.