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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

RyanPuffs She/Her from Big Bill Hell's Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
She/Her
#3577: Feb 5th 2023 at 9:08:09 PM

Also, [tup] to Dhuran and Danny

Profile picture by @BoxNazrin on Bluesky. Give her a follow!
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#3578: Feb 5th 2023 at 9:32:28 PM

I'm gonna ultimately say No to Tira, myself. Sure to Dhuran, though!

Not a huge fan of the Horner pics but the second one is pretty good.

Edited by Ravok on Feb 5th 2023 at 9:32:58 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3580: Feb 5th 2023 at 10:04:25 PM

I'm really a no to Tira, and she sounds way too messed up. The "adopted and murdered the family" sounds more like a result of intense psychological damage.
Fair enough, and I'd be inclined to agree regarding the original version of Tira given that killing her mentor was said to have traumatized her and led to her psychosis.

The reboot version, on the other hand, isn't stated to have sustained any trauma over killing her mentor.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3581: Feb 5th 2023 at 10:10:16 PM

If it is not too much to ask a breakdown on reboot Tira’s actions and lack of sympathy, militating factors and excuse would help like you did with the OG Tira

With that Switching to a [tdown] to OG Tira

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 5th 2023 at 1:11:24 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#3582: Feb 5th 2023 at 11:14:51 PM

Yeah, I think at this point it might be best to just make a separate EP for reboot Tira.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#3583: Feb 5th 2023 at 11:22:22 PM

Yes to The Closer-verse candidates

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3584: Feb 5th 2023 at 11:42:06 PM

OK... here's a breakdown for reboot Tira.

What is the work?

Soulcalibur VI is a Continuity Reboot of the Soul series set in an alternate timeline from the first five games, and unlike those games has a concrete story mode set during the events of Soul Edge/Blade, SoulCalibur, and even some of SoulCalibur II in the original timeline.


Who is the candidate and what have they done?

  1. ~1567 — A girl is born, orphaned, and taken in as an infant by the Bird of Passage/Flyaway Falcons assassin guild. Trained by a senior member of the guild in the most ruthless and sadistic ways to kill a target, the girl quickly becomes a master of the "Dance of Death" fighting style (involving brutally mutilating their opponents as a form of intimidation) and kills her mentor to complete her training, being assigned the codename "Eiserne Drossel".

  2. 1583 — Grecian holy warrior Sophitia Alexandra duels the Dread Pirate Cervantes de Léon — who wielded Soul Edge in the form of two swords — and shatters one of them with her divine sword. Cervantes is finished off by the ninja Taki and Siegfried Schtauffen claims the remaining blade. Soul Edge unleashes a wave of evil energy called the Evil Seed, which infects random people — including the leader of Eiserne Drossel's squad.
    Separated from the others in the chaos and left to fend for herself, Eiserne Drossel is adopted by an ordinary family and is given the name Tira, coming to contemplate living a normal life.

  3. 1584 — A trivial slight leads to Tira butchering every last member of her adopted family — men, women, and children. Euphoric at having done so, she discovers she's developed Hollywood-flavoured dissociative identity disorder — one personality being cheerfully sadistic and the other being cantankerous and brutal.
    The two personalities agreeing that nothing is better than murder, Tira sets out to become a serial killer... though her two personalities bicker over what the best way to go about doing so is: Jolly preferring to use a Wounded Gazelle Gambit to lure in unwary travellers before torturing them to death, and "Gloomy" preferring to indiscriminately slaughter anyone she comes across.

  4. 1585 — Tracked down by a member of the Bird of Passage sent to bring her back, Tira refuses — preferring the freedom to kill as much as and whoever she wants over being limited to only killing assigned targets. Torturing the assassin for information, she learns that a warrior called Nightmare is carving a swath of destruction across Europe and is elated at the possibility of meeting someone who enjoys killing as much as she does.

  5. 1587 — Searching for two years and killing anyone she comes across, Tira tortures a Bird of Passage assassin sent to bring her in dead or alive and learns that Nightmare's lair is in the city of Ostrheinsburg, Germany.

  6. 1589 — Eventually makes her way to Ostrheinsburg Castle, Tira encounters Zasalamel. Zasalamel informs her she arrived too late to meet Nightmare (implying that this may take place after Siegfried sealed Soul Edge using Soul Calibur), and after duelling her to judge her worthiness informs her that Nightmare is merely a puppet for Soul Edge and that it was what made him capable of singlehandedly slaughtering whole armies. Her two personalities finally able to agree on something, Tira sets out to find Soul Edge.


Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

None that I can ascertain, and she has Adaptational Villainy compared to her original timeline self. Tira admired her mentor's combat prowess but still killed her as part of her assassins guild rite of passage, and unlike her original counterpart doing so doesn't seem to have affected her much — if at all. After killing her adoptive family over a minor slight (presumably the same as in the original timeline), Tira gushes ecstatically and comments that she wishes the euphoria of the moment could never end. With both her personalities agreeing that they love murder equally, Tira happily rejects living a normal life in favour of becoming a serial killer, though her personalities can't agree whether quality is better than quantity.

Furthermore, it's noted that unless someone like Zasalamel or Cassandra does something to change the course of history, Tira will end up committing the same horrific actions her original timeline counterpart did re. Sophitia and Pyrrha.

Are they bad enough?

Tira's a master assassin responsible for an unknown number of deaths, and an unrepentant sadist who delights in finding new and ever-more sadistic ways killing men, women, and even children; while mutilating their corpses for kicks and giggles. And given that she's four years older than her original timeline counterpart, her body count at this point is presumable greater than her orignal timeline counterpart's was. Admittedly she may not have the body count of Nightmare, Cervantes, or Astaroth (yet), but she's still a mere human at this point whereas they're Malfested and/or a golem supersoldier. Moreover, her body count is still impressive given the fact she has no superhuman powers, and she very much aspires to some day become able to wipe out whole armies by herself.

Final verdict?

I'm inclined to say yes.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 6th 2023 at 12:29:07 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3585: Feb 5th 2023 at 11:43:08 PM

[tup]Danny and Dhuran (btw if want id try his original game counterpart over on MB. The guy is pretty charming and noble)

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3586: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:48:51 AM

[tup] Danny [tup] Dhuran

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 6th 2023 at 6:53:48 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3587: Feb 6th 2023 at 1:02:50 AM

Did Astaroth get enough votes?

Dhuran...seems low quantity wise, but makes up for it in personal villainy. Yes to him.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#3588: Feb 6th 2023 at 2:12:26 AM

[tup] to Dhuran and gonna go with yes to reboot Tira.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#3589: Feb 6th 2023 at 2:42:13 AM

Easy no to the original Tira.

I have to say no to reboot Tira as well. Developing a personality disorder over a minor disagreement sounds way too much like an issue with her current psyche. I don't see a legitimate rejection from this information, just that her psyche is already corrupted to be evil and her mind being fractured into two evil pieces shows too much of a lack of agency to me overall.

She's too psychologically insane for me to find her accountable. Besides that, it's not like she could try living a normal lifestyle and it'd magically work. She's trained to be easily violent and willing to kill. We at best see her snap at the drop of a hat, which is a good sign of insanity. We don't see her training onscreen to make it clear exactly how she should act otherwise, just the overall aftermath of her being rather crazy.

The only thing it really looks like to me that they did is change when she overall went insane and the events surrounding it, but not actually removing said insanity. I could've believed it if she was pretending to be good to "try it out" and already being willing to kill over minor things, but not with the mind being fractured in two taken into account. Now it sounds too unbelievable. It's clear that both minds aren't severely insane, as noted by them being able to agree on things(as she has some control), but she's still quite unhinged.

Shadow?
TadiTadTa The Dark Priest himself from Probably Side 3 Since: Nov, 2020
The Dark Priest himself
#3590: Feb 6th 2023 at 2:50:04 AM

Also, looking at the time, it seems to be time to release my write up for Valder Farkill

I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much
TadiTadTa The Dark Priest himself from Probably Side 3 Since: Nov, 2020
The Dark Priest himself
#3591: Feb 6th 2023 at 2:50:16 AM

Mobile Suit Gundam Wing The Last Outpost/G-Unit manga, by Kōichi Tokita: Valder Farkill, nicknamed Dark General of Destruction, is an ace pilot from OZ. He is summoned by Dr. Berg, and his first act in the manga is shooting down all four space shuttles filled with civilians trying to escape from the conflict at MO-V. When announcing his take over of OZ Price, he killed Broom Brooks for objecting. Despite Armonia Sisters being furiously loyal to him, he didn’t hesitate to have them caught in the blast of Grand Chario’s cannon once he found them useless. His ultimate goal is to kill OZ leader Treize Khushrenada, so that he could take over OZ.

Edited by TadiTadTa on Feb 6th 2023 at 7:36:33 PM

I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3592: Feb 6th 2023 at 3:04:05 AM

Before or after Dr. Berg in the tree?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TadiTadTa The Dark Priest himself from Probably Side 3 Since: Nov, 2020
The Dark Priest himself
#3593: Feb 6th 2023 at 3:13:58 AM

After I guess

I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3595: Feb 6th 2023 at 5:30:41 AM

Developing a personality disorder over a minor disagreement sounds way too much like an issue with her current psyche.

It's not outright stated exactly what caused her to develop a split personality, though. All her profile says is that it happened "at a certain point" — and she did spend roughly a year living with the family without issue.

That said, her profile describes her as having a deeply-suppressed third "true" personality described as a "beast" that brings anathema to those that awaken it — though this isn't shown in gameplay or her story mode.

She's too psychologically insane for me to find her accountable. Besides that, it's not like she could try living a normal lifestyle and it'd magically work.

So the very fact that she has split personalities is (part of what's) disqualifying her, then? I dunno, isn't it a bit of a double standard given that demons, eldritch entites, and other sadistic sociopaths with a love of torture and mutilation that preclude them from having a "normal" lifestyle have been approved, but Tira having been raised as an assassin and developing a split personality disqualifies her? I'm personally not really seeing how Tira's any less an example than the likes of, say, Naraku, Ramsay Snow, or especially Cletus Kasady and Nui Harime.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 6th 2023 at 5:51:25 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3596: Feb 6th 2023 at 5:33:06 AM

Yeah, I’m a firm no to her

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3597: Feb 6th 2023 at 5:48:10 AM

Can't speak to specifics, but there's a difference between literally not knowing right and wrong, and just not caring. The latter applies to someone like Joker or Carnage.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#3598: Feb 6th 2023 at 5:51:43 AM

Well living with the family for about a year would give her time to learn diference.

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#3599: Feb 6th 2023 at 6:02:20 AM

[up][up] Fair point... though I'm confused as to why Nui Harime was approved when she's a Half-Human Hybrid Humanoid Abomination raised in an apocalyptic cult disguised as a textiles manufacturing corporation by a mother who hates humanity, almost certainly molested her when she was young (and it's unclear how old she is, though she's probably even younger than the 17-year-old Ryūko), and is also in an incestuous relationship with her. I guess that's a question for the clean-up thread, though.

[up] Unfortunately, we're not shown what her life with the family was like and all her profile states was that it was mundane — and thus, to Tira, unbearably boring. That probably counts against her qualifying too, since it elucidates how badly her being raised from birth to be a sadistic assassin twisted her.

If she doesn't count, she doesn't count. Oh well, can't win 'em all.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 6th 2023 at 6:12:45 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3600: Feb 6th 2023 at 6:04:30 AM

People are saying no. please accept it. Nui Harime is one I disagreed with being listed, but she doesn't have a split personality and the same insane mental issues as Tira does. People get downvoted, it happens.


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