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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
rosewood47 from A Padded Cell (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#26652: Sep 28th 2023 at 9:11:15 AM

Sure to Dagmar.

EDIT: actually I've got a question about that that I asked later in the thread

Edited by rosewood47 on Sep 28th 2023 at 4:09:34 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#26653: Sep 28th 2023 at 9:11:40 AM

Yes to Sokar.

Edited by Bullman on Sep 28th 2023 at 12:02:22 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#26655: Sep 28th 2023 at 9:30:20 AM

[tup] Dagmar, Valek, and Sokar

It's Spooky Month!
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#26656: Sep 28th 2023 at 9:31:12 AM

[tup] Dagmar, Sokar, and Valak

There is a scene where Dagmar seems shocked and hurt that Bean believes she never loved her... but given her history of gaslighting Bean that can't be taken at face value and goes out the window when Dags straight-up repeatedly tries to murder her daughter.

For a few added tidbits, Dagmar tricks the Trøgs into believing she's The Chosen One and eats their brains to boost her magical powers, she lets Bad Bean murder Cloyd and Becky — her other siblings — in cold blood, and she gleefully boasts about being a sociopath during the final battle.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#26657: Sep 28th 2023 at 9:32:44 AM

So that is 8 Stargate examples if I am counting correctly. Should we make a page?

Edited by Bullman on Sep 28th 2023 at 11:33:03 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#26659: Sep 28th 2023 at 10:33:04 AM

Hey, so while I have plenty of stuff planned for next week (this Sunday in particular), I want to not-so-quickly discuss a game I've been fascinated with as of late.

What’s the Work?

Hero King Quest: Peacemaker Prologue is an installment in the Peacemaker Series, made by the same studios as the Physical Exorcism Series. The series itself is mainly about the moral complexities of many different races and kingdoms all at war.

But this game in particular? To quote the trope page: "The Cerulean Land plans on conquering the Dark Realm and enacting genocide on all of its denizens, and the Dark Ones are ill-prepared to fight back due to their incompetent Dark Lord, Spidergland. The Dark Lord's sister, Spiderweb, seeks to curry favor with all the factions within the realm so that she can overthrow her sister and defeat the Cerulean Kingdom, but she only has four days to do so before the enemy forces begin their assault."

Now in this Dark Realm, there is evil afoot. And it's a little closer to Spiderweb than she thought.

Who is She?

Spidergland, Queen of the Dark Realm, is the realm's current Dark Lord whose claims of peace belie an incompetently paranoid coward.

What has she done?

After a failed rebellion from some goblinoids a millennium ago, Spidergland began viewing non-dark elf races as untrustworthy, since they all could launch another coup, so she made the other races who inhabit the Dark Realm like the orcs, nilbogs, human witches, and kobolds second class citizens. Spidergland has the kobolds enslaved to work in her deadly mines, the nilbogs forced to live in poverty in the slums, and the human witches her fighters so long as they pledge their allegiance to her goddess, The Dark Mother.

Spidergland also allows the human Cerulean Kingdom to commit genocide on neighboring races within her realm in order to save her own skin, which eventually leads to her allowing the genocide of the nearby wood elves. With the Dark Mother’s Azoth sword having deemed her an unfit ruler, Spidergland has her own daughter Spidervenom imprisoned by the Cerulean Kingdom out of pettiness knowing that she would be a better fit for ruling than her.

But Spidergland’s cowardice is taken to the extreme when she sells out her entire realm and her own Grand Dark Temple to the Cerulean Kingdom, willing to have her own neighboring warlocks and witches burned to death and uncaring that without a temple, the entire dark elf population will be at risk of extinction. All Spidergland cares about is saving her own skin, having made the deal with the Cerulean’s Inquisitor General to protect herself from their wrath, all while claiming she’s doing this for the sake of peace between the two lands.

But to seal the deal between the two nations, Spidergland summons Spiderweb to her throne room by threatening to kill each and every member of her assassin guild should she not come. Handing Spiderweb over to the Inquisitor General to complete their deal, as Webs had killed their Hero Prince, Spidergland eventually meets her end when Spiderweb launches a scheme to escape her imprisonment and round up her own army of orcs, nilbogs, and kobolds to raid the palace, with Spidergland’s Dark Elf Assassin guild (which she disbanded moments prior out of paranoia), her coven of witches (who were also disbanded moments ago) and even her own guards not willing to risk their lives to save her.

Spiderweb delivers the killing blow to Spidergland, who dies begging her sister to spare her, ending her reign of terror and seizing control of the Dark Realm as its new Dark Lord.

Redeeming Qualities?

Ultimately none. While Spidergland claims to do what she does for the sake of peace and prosperity within her kingdom, it's ultimately revealed to be just a mask to hide a paranoic who would sell out her own people to save her own life. At the end of the day, Spidergland's a racist coward who has her own daughter imprisoned by the enemy to extend her rule and is willing to kill her own sister to protect herself, not understanding the fact that her cruelty proved to be her own downfall.

Heinousness?

So this is where it gets a bit tricky. The people and rulers of the Cerulean Kingdom are awful. The Hero King abides by the Light Spirit religion, which encourages racism and misogyny amongst its followers, which include having witches and warlocks either burned at the stake or banished from the land, and the Hero King is also a genocidal warmonger responsible for the slaughter of the wood elves, which we see up close.

But, the Hero King genuinely loves his son, the Hero Prince, and is one of the many reasons why he's after Spiderweb.

Spidergland, meanwhile, is portrayed as just as bad as the Hero King but with none of his redeeming qualities, enslaving many races within her realm and having them live out malnourished lifestyles in a poor attempt to protect herself from another potential rebellion; she's the only one in the story to enslave people. Spidergland also allows the Hero King to commit genocide on her land, from the wood elves, to the witches, to even potentially her own race of dark elves, in return for protection, meaning she's completely complicit in all of his crimes thanks to her own selfishness. The work makes it very clear that she's every bit as bad as the humans, nothing more than a tyrant who continuously makes poor decisions that have claimed the lives of many.

While Spiderweb is shown to be rather unscrupulous in parts, she's shown to actually care about her friends and is deeply loyal to the words of the Dark Mother, unlike Spidergland, who is willing to sell out her own culture and have her land desecrated by the genocidal Ceruleans.

And even Sanguine, Spiderweb's loyal compatriot, is the Big Bad of the previous game who uses her necromancy to satiate her hatred of humans (despite being one herself) and is stated to be a Mad Scientist who performs brain experiments on captive humans. But not only are these crimes of hers all offscreen (to an extent), but Sanguine has an excuse in that she genuinely hates what humans have done to other races, and is implied to have been a victim of their hatred as well. Plus she genuinely likes Spiderweb, even if it's implied she might have ulterior motives of her own.

And while there is more to come from the series (there's two installments planned for release next year), with Spidergland officially dead, I think it's fair to propose her considering her story's come to an end.

Conclusion

After all of that, I think Spidergland keeps

Edited by therealjackieboy on Sep 28th 2023 at 10:33:52 AM

It's Spooky Month!
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#26661: Sep 28th 2023 at 10:47:28 AM

[tup]spidergland

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#26662: Sep 28th 2023 at 11:00:01 AM

Yes to Spidergland.

Edited by Bullman on Sep 28th 2023 at 1:05:13 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#26663: Sep 28th 2023 at 11:22:29 AM

My concern about Spidergland: She ALLOWS genocide, but the Cerulean Kingdom's COMMITTING it.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#26664: Sep 28th 2023 at 11:33:08 AM

[up] True, but she's mainly allowing races within her own kingdom to be slaughtered, when she could've used her forces to save them. She even risks the lives of every single member of her own race just to ensure her survival by selling everyone out to the Cerulean Kingdom. So while she's not committing genocide, the story shows that she's just as bad for selfishly allowing it to happen within her realm for the sake of her own livelihood.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Sep 28th 2023 at 11:34:02 AM

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#26665: Sep 28th 2023 at 11:39:05 AM

Hmm...if the story treats it as bad, I'll give a yes then.

Pending:

Edited by ACW on Sep 28th 2023 at 2:49:40 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
rosewood47 from A Padded Cell (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#26667: Sep 28th 2023 at 1:05:58 PM

Re: Dagmar, how seriously is her defeat taken? Because being locked in a cage with a Small, Annoying Creature for eternity sounds a bit silly.

Edited by rosewood47 on Sep 28th 2023 at 4:07:04 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#26668: Sep 28th 2023 at 1:26:47 PM

It's played for humor, she's played seriously enough.

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#26669: Sep 28th 2023 at 1:30:19 PM

[tup] to Dagmar, Sokar, Valak and Spidergland.

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#26670: Sep 28th 2023 at 1:35:25 PM

[tup] for Dagmar, Valak, Sokar, and Spidergland.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#26671: Sep 28th 2023 at 1:37:16 PM

Yes to Dagmar, Sokar, Valak and Spidergland

rosewood47 from A Padded Cell (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Best Smile
#26673: Sep 28th 2023 at 3:11:03 PM

[tup]Dragon King, Muck, Cyrus, Nobu, Dimitri, Hans Nemesis, Ryder, Facilier, Soul Curator, Dagmar, Valak, Sokar, Spidergland.

[tdown]Hawk Moth, Rahab.

Switching to[tdown] on Tabuu.

I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
#26674: Sep 28th 2023 at 4:18:26 PM

Easy [tup] to Dagmar. Been waiting five years for this one. I guess this would be the first Matt Groening CM?

Edited by speyeker on Sep 28th 2023 at 4:19:33 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#26675: Sep 28th 2023 at 6:31:51 PM

[tup] to Spidergland and Dagmar

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA

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