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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#26626: Sep 28th 2023 at 4:22:05 AM

RAVOK COUSIN! WHAT AN AMAZING EP!! TO CELEBRATE LET'S GO BOWLING!!!

Jokes aside, yes to Dimitri, the Rascal he is. I can see why he was overlooked and rejected for so long - He has quantity over quality. His individual crimes are typical GTA fare as has been indicated, but when taken altogether, he makes it.

Yes to Nemesis and my word he'd handily count in the other canons as well.

Sure also to Fanscription!Facilier.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#26627: Sep 28th 2023 at 5:07:15 AM

Yes to Facilier.

Lean yes to the Curator; do the other endings have any changes though?

EDIT: Oh, it's been 2 weeks since the season finale of Harley Quinn (2019). Nobody counts, though I GUESS if someone wants to make a case for Luthor they could? Joker's still evil, but still loves his family.

Edited by ACW on Sep 28th 2023 at 8:34:01 AM

Smiley100P Since: Sep, 2017
#26628: Sep 28th 2023 at 5:33:00 AM

[up] In all honesty I haven't gotten to the true ending, but the split happens just before the final boss and he dies before that point.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#26629: Sep 28th 2023 at 5:51:37 AM

Given the games canon status — and only Word of God claiming that the Witch is a different being from Elly — unless you have something tangible to back it up, that kind of dismissal of the movies just doesn’t fly.

She was lycnhed for doing witchcraft and supposedly being a malevolent witch. The movies don't offer enough substance or proof that this is what turned her evil. As far as the movies say, she might have been evil from the start. There is just not enough pondering or proof that paint her as a tragic villain, the movies don't well on it and mockumentaries based on movies (which may or may not be canon), from what i heard, also torn 50/50 on this, with no actual proof of her innocence either.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#26630: Sep 28th 2023 at 6:27:18 AM

The point is — if we’re going with the assumption that Elly was the witch in this game's timeline; which according to Word of God isn’t the case — the OG lore is purposefully vague as to whether or not she was actually guilty of what she was accused of, with different adaptations telling us different things.

Eduardo Sanchez himself has also said that Elly Kedward herself was purposefully written with Alternate Character Interpretation in mind; there is no set in stone take on Elly, with different mediums saying different things.

She was an old woman who lived in isolation drew blood from kids – without actually killing them – during a time of superstition and ignorance, and when a plague was one the township. One could take the story of the witch at face value and that she was a purely evil witch at the start; or take historical context into account and say she was a victim of superstition and ignorance, who was warped by a cruel and unjust lynching.

Edited by Beast on Sep 28th 2023 at 6:29:02 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Smiley100P Since: Sep, 2017
#26631: Sep 28th 2023 at 6:54:11 AM

I've seen a troper speculate on Erlina counting as a CM as well. I think I'm going to change things up and make an EP on why I don't think she counts, as vile as she is.

What is Sea of Stars?

Covered this before. Turn-Based Indie RPG with incredible art, very good gameplay, and an admittedly somewhat lackluster story about the last Solstice Warriors.
That being said, the story absolutely has its highlights. This is one of them.

Who is Erlina? What does she do?

Erlina is one of the few remaining Solstice Warriors after the Cleansing against the Dweller of Strife, a remarkably tanky dweller who wipes out most of the order on its own save Moraine. In the beginning of the game, she serves as one of Valere and Zale's mentors.
Things take a turn for the worse once the Dweller of Woe is defeated, however. Seraï puts a stranglehold on Erlina's partner Brugaves, attempting to force them to reveal their treachery before Erlina knocks Seraï away, creating a barrier between the Dweller Core (with herself) and the rest of the group. It's then revealed that she and Brugaves made a deal with the Acolytes of the Fleshmancer: In exchange for their "freedom", as well as the potential for Valere and Zale's (which only Brugaves vouched for, by the way), they would conjure a blood moon to revive the Dweller of Strife.

...She (along with Brugaves) conjured a Blood Moon to revive a Dweller. A Dweller that has killed over 20 Solstice Warriors. Said revival immediately also brought the port town of Brisk to ruin.

When the party meets her (with Brugaves) again at Clockwork Castle, she opts to stall for time so that the Dweller of Strife can be revived, fighting against her former apprentices in order to do so. Eventually, once Seraï inducts The Fleshmancer's wrath by throwing Resh'an's Flask of Time at the Dweller of Strife because Valere and Zale would have died if she hadn't intervened, Erlina came face to face with the Fleshmancer. Once Brugaves left to serve as the Demon King's right hand in the distant future, Erlina agreed to help the Fleshmancer defend his castle in Seraï's homeworld, and in exchange asked the Fleshmancer to grant her "power overwhelming" and rule over said world in her stead. When returning as the demon Elysan'darëlle in the normal ending, it's revealed she's had her memories wiped by the Fleshmancer with her new form, and when she fails to protect the Fleshmancer's seat of power, The Fleshmancer declares that he only promised her opportunity and kills her.

Heinousness?

Her heinousness is a complete non-issue. She and Brugaves were essential to reviving the Dweller of Strife, and she personally agreed to defending the Fleshmancer's stronghold for power. She only has herself, Brugaves, and her status as a Solstice Warrior, so she easily stands out.

Mitigating Factors?

The most glaring issue is her care for Brugaves. I think it holds up, but the troper who inspired me to entertain her in the first place brings up some good points. You can read what they said but I do want to go over it myself. She's been clear about it when she was little, but once Brugaves left she expresses little concern for him and only asks for power, and in the first place she needed him to conjure the blood moon and has been in the driver's seat throughout the whole thing. The only thing that gives me pause is that she doesn't directly contradict her vow to protect Brugaves, only looking out for herself once they're separated by time and space.

Verdict?

I wouldn't be giving her the time of day if I didn't genuinely believe she had a shot despite my doubts, so I'll go ahead and leave this up to you guys.

Edited by Smiley100P on Sep 28th 2023 at 7:01:54 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#26632: Sep 28th 2023 at 7:06:46 AM

By rule of thumb a redeeming quality stands unless the villain does something to show they really don't care for said loved one, such as remorselessly killing them or something like that.

From what has been written it doesn't sound like the redeeming quality has been explicitly subverted.

Smiley100P Since: Sep, 2017
#26633: Sep 28th 2023 at 7:31:11 AM

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking as well.
Anyway, Soul Curator Writeup!

  • The Soul Curator manages the army in the Fleshmancer's lair, concerned only for his own safety and the power of his creations. In the past, the Soul Curator forced the humans in Seraï's homeworld to graft their souls onto immortal robots using a sapient and unwilling AI core so they can be fed on indefinitely by the Dweller of Dread, slowly driving them into despair and hopelessness. When the party storms the Fleshmancer's lair, the Soul Curator attempts to corrupt Zale, Valere, Seraï, and B'st into his minions, with the implication that he's done this before. When confronted, he runs away to the portal room where he orders four servants to sacrifice themselves to summon the Phase Reaper, who kills two more to intimidate the rest into following the Soul Curator's orders. When the Phase Reaper is killed, the Soul Curator attempts to summon Barma'thazël in a last-ditch effort to save himself, which would have violated the Fleshmancer's agreement with Brugaves to never have to fight the Solstice Warriors again.
[down] Oh, whoops

Edited by Smiley100P on Sep 28th 2023 at 7:40:17 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#26634: Sep 28th 2023 at 7:36:59 AM

[up] We're supposed to wait three days after the initial EP before we handle entries.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#26635: Sep 28th 2023 at 7:55:31 AM

Friends, mind if I help with Alan wake? Had that one in before the break. I'm gonna be getting back on stuff here, too. First? Writeups.

  • Horror from the Bridge: Lionel Phipps, son of an evil sorcerer and a walking corpse, is dedicated to continuing his father's work to bring about the end of the world. Continuing blasphemous experiments, Phipps unlocks the secrets of unleashing the monsters hidden beneath the bridge and attempts to unleash them on an unsuspecting Severn Valley with plans to bring about an apocalypse with the Great Old Ones soon after.
  • 976-Evil: Satan himself, conjured from Hell by the machinations of Mark Dark, sets his sights on the lost victims who fall prey to the evil hotline. Taking over their souls, Satan possesses them and uses their bodies to commit murders so he can manifest. With young Hoax, Satan guides him into becoming a perfect vessel to butcher those about him before attempting to bring the apocalypse.
  • Last Shift: John Michael Paymon is a potentially supernatural cultist who follows the true devil, hinted to be Paimon the King of Hell who reigned long before Lucifer was cast from heaven. With his "family," Paymon kidnapped multiple innocents and brutally tortured them to death before killing the police who tried to stop them. Committing suicide in his cell, Paymon's wicked soul haunts the condemned precinct where he torments a rookie officer whose father died stopping him. Driving her insane and into the murder of innocents, Paymon arranges her death and ends the film about to claim her soul.

Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 28th 2023 at 8:03:34 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#26636: Sep 28th 2023 at 7:57:15 AM

Write for Robin.

  • Monsters (Once Upon a Time and Aliens) (link): Robin Locksley, lacking his TV counterpart's redeeming qualities, is a high-ranking member of Misthaven. After hearing of the Xenomorphs existing, he purposely has the colony of BH657 make contact with a possible nest to claim them as a potential weapon, which leads to the massacre of all the colonists except one young boy, with Robin showing no remorse for this. Desiring to make more money, Robin repeatedly impedes any attempt to wipe the creatures out and later locks Regina and Henry in a room with two Xenomorphs, hoping to have them impregnated to bring the creatures back to Earth, while planning to kill all the remaining Marines to eliminate witnesses.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#26637: Sep 28th 2023 at 8:26:17 AM

Okay, finally:

What's the work?

Disenchantment is a fantasy series by Matt Groening. Princess Tiabeanie, AKA "Bean" learns of a uest to fulfill and teams up with a group of fellow misfits. And out big bad? None other than her remarkably wicked mother, who's...surprisingly awful for a comedic series. Queen Dagmar

Who is Dagmar?

Originally a princess from the land of Maru. When she was young, Dagmmar murdered her parents and lied about them dying in a murder-suicide. Now, Mamru had something of a prophecy as a result of deals with Hell, about the child of two kingdoms and a sacrifice. Dagmar tried to fulfill it with her brother Jerry and left him with brain damage as a result of screwing a crown to his head. When this failed, she later set her sights on King Zog of Dreamland to fulfill the prophecy. When she ha their daughter, Bean, Dagmar tried to poison Zog and turn him to stone. Bean had innocently switched the goblet and Dagmmar drank the poison instead.

Zog remarried and had a son named Derek while Bean became a rebellious teen. Eventually Bean revived her mom. Mistake. Dagmar wasted no timem in resuming her schemes and turned all of Dreamland but a few to stone. Hunting her daughter, she intended to nail the special crown to her head and fulfill the prophecy. Dagmar attempts to manipulate Bean who is now realizing her mom is bad news to hand Bean over to hell for power. Bean escapes, but Dagmar is the one to sign a pact with Satan. Whereupon Dagmar reveals she's more evil than Satan, while killing Bean's friend Luci. When Jerry turns against her, Dagmar has no hesitation murdering her brother.

Now amrried to Satn, Dagmar is in control and creates an evil version of her daughter, Bad Bean. And tricks bean into murdering her own girlfriend by accident. In the finale, Dagmmar attempts to become ruler of all, resulting in a final fight that sees her beaten. Feigning regret, she begs Elfo, Bean's friend, to stay with her, only to hold him and try to ensure his death with her. Ultimately, Dagmar is immortal, but as a way to dispose of her? Satan imprisons her in a cage with an annoying being named Freckles by the side of a cliff. Presumably for all time.

Mitigating issues?

So, for a comedic series? Dagmar is actually played straight. She's funny, sure, but she's a vicious sociopath who abuses her family, murders people and ultimately tries to rule the world. her marriage to Satan is nothing but abusive and controlling and Satan (who's not even that evil) freely admits he's not sure how long he can stay in the relationship. Dagmar is steadily revealed as worse and worse until the end of season 4 where she tries to murder Bean without a hint of remorse and reveals she's never, ever loved her daughter.

Conclusion?

Would give Dagmar a yes.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Smiley100P Since: Sep, 2017
#26640: Sep 28th 2023 at 8:32:03 AM

[tup] to Dagmar.

Edited by Smiley100P on Sep 28th 2023 at 8:32:13 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#26641: Sep 28th 2023 at 8:39:46 AM

Does Dagmar passed the HS? Last time I watched it I remember a duo who were a parody of Hansel and Gretel that killed their victims and cannibalised them

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#26642: Sep 28th 2023 at 8:40:49 AM

[up] Dagmar turns an entire kingdom to stone, something that is the same as killing them if they're not revived and treated such. In addition to her ghastly abuse of her family and personal crimes. She's fine.

And one more now.

What's the work?

The Conjuringverse's "The Nun 2" (writeup to be expanded by Sum Dum Nerd" now. We discuss the monstrous Nun, AKA Valak, the Defiler and the Marquis of Snakes.

Who is Valak?

The overarching Big Bad of the Conjuringverse. Valak was an angel who stood with Satan when the rebels were cast down from the heavens. One of Lucifer's most ardent and powerful servants, Valak is an utterly monstrous being who lives to corrupt. Now, one of the few things deadly to demons like Valak is holy blood, including the blood of the martyred Saint Lucy. Valak makes it a mission to eradicate the bloodline out of personal pique.

Valak was summoned from Hell by an evil Baron centuries prior. The Crusaders interrupted the summoning at the Abbey of St. Cartja and slew the Baron while trapping Valak. The abbey was staffed with a holy order that assigned nuns to pray 24/7 over the seal to keep Valak stuck between planes. But in World War 2, the bombings interrupted the order and Valak was able to slip out and haunt the Abbey. Taking the form of a monstrous Nun to blend in but also mock the faith of the Catholics, Valak steadily massacred everyone within the Abbey save for a few to possess and ride out to freedom into the world. The final nun committed suicide in order to keep this at bay while the Nuns' ghosts desperately used what little power they had they keep Valak contained as much as possible.

After being defeated, Valak was able to possess a French-Canadian named Maurice and manifests later and begins a killing spree of clergy across Europe. It is revealed Valak is purging the bloodline of St. Lucy and ultimately faces off with its nemesis Sister Irene, who turns out to be a descendant. Irene is able to defest Valak and banish it back to Hell again.

Valak later manifests back in poor Maurice and causes his death before being exorcised by the Warren couple (Valak does not have a very good track record when you really look at this resume) and centers in to torment them. Enslaving a soul to cause a haunting, Valak attempts to murder a possessed child so it may swap it out to kill Ed Warren for spite.

Because Valak inexplicably told Lorraine its name in a haunting (seriously, Valak is very bad at this), Lorraine is able to use its name to bind Valak and banish it back to Hell.

Mitigating issues?

Nah. Valak's only gotten worse for pure bodycount. Ultimately, any agency concerns are dispelled by the reveal Valak was a rebel angel. It loves to mock faith and goodness (hence its disguise of a nun) and gleefully does things like turning crosses upside down (despite this not actually being an unholy symbol but the Cross of St. Peter). Valak is ultimately a purely malevolent mass murderer who desires to burn down anything holy.

Conclusion?

And still a yes. Sum will handle expansion.

Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 28th 2023 at 8:41:37 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#26644: Sep 28th 2023 at 8:46:54 AM

Unsuprising [tup] to Valak….. Again. And a long awaited easy [tup] to Dagmar. Who would've guessed that the guy who created the Simpsons and Futurama would create such a vile villain.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#26647: Sep 28th 2023 at 8:57:22 AM

[tup] Dagmar and Valak.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#26649: Sep 28th 2023 at 9:05:59 AM

And now, to catch up. I've got one from an old franchise, and a duo from another. Then on to polishing stuff off in October. Getting back aboard.

First is from the Stargate franchise. I give you Sokar.

Who is Sokar?

One of the Goa'uld System Lords. The Goa'uld are parasites who possess host bodies, and have incredibly powerful technology that they use to enslave entire ssystems (hence the name). The Goa'uld are held in uneasy alliances and rivalries with one another, originally held in check by their Emperor Ra (the Goa'uld are named for figures of earth mythology and cultivate the image as Gods). Ra's brother, Apophis, is the original Big Bad of the series, which initially focuses on combating the remaining System Lords.

Sokar is one of the eldest of the System Lords and delights in fear and cruelty above worship. Sokar was thrilled to discover races with mortality and delighted in portraying himself as a Satanic figure and a God of Death. Worlds under Sokar were obliterated, made into barren wastelands to enhance his terrifying legend.

When the System Lords were distracted long ago through a rather brutal civil war when Ra was leading his forces against the rogue System Lord Anubis, Sokar took the chance to seize earth to take control, which amounted to...a lot of mass death. Sokar actively blotted out the sun, allowed mass murder and monsters to hunt humans and was generally a horrible tyrant. A very angry Ra struck back and Sokar was beleived killed. HE survived, though his power was vastly reduced.

Building his powerbase back up, Sokar even turned one of his moons into a literal hell, where anyone who displeased him or rivals to there, where they would be imprisoned and tortured. Upon launching a coup, Sokar sent the new claimant for the throne, Apophis, to his hell world and also sent word of the death of Apophis's mate to taunt him.

Now claiming full dominion, Sokar prepared to attack the other top System Lords and eradicate them to enhance his hellish dominion. The heroes have to actively free Apophis and stop Sokar because what he plans is mass murder across the galaxy. Sokar orders Aophis tortured to death, but Stargate team is able to thwart everything. Apophis faces Sokar and the heroes rig Sokar's hell world to explode. Apophis escapes, leaving an enraged Sokar to be caught in the blast with his flagship, before reclaiming his place as the ultimate System Lord.

Mitigating issues?

Sokar is evil by Goa'uld standards. The Goa'uld are usually vicious tyrants but Sokar is sadistic to levels they can barely dream of. He was previously dismissed for reasons of heinousness, but uh. no. His eternal torture colony is something so insanely beyond the pale. The only other Goa'uld who can keep here are:

  • Ra, who attempts mass genocide of humanity in the film and was the Emepror of the Goa'uld.
  • Nirrti, who's a mad scientist in her niche.
  • Anubis, who attempts to wipe out all life in the galaxy.

Now, Anubis is mentioned to have committed crimes awful even to the Goa'uld, hence the other System Lords allying to defeat and exile him, but uh....if Sokar has standards we sure never see them and he's considered sadistic and dangerous by their low standards. Apophis is a bastard who has no issues with mass murder, slaughtering civilians and torture, but he treats his subjects a helluva lot better than Sokar does (and when he takes over Sokar's territory, presenting himself as a heroic liberator is easy). Plus, Apophis loves his mate and child

Conclusion?

Long awaited yet.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#26650: Sep 28th 2023 at 9:07:52 AM

[tup]Sokar, Dagmar and Valak

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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