Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
I actually dont mind the goofier moments on crimson. Their not any worse than what Angelus has and he's a rock solid keep. And both are played seriously where it matters.
My bigger worry is the heinous standard for that show. Like Blitzo is an Ax-Crazy mass murderer. Along with like the rest of the cast barring Moxxie. I dunno I could see it but uh...
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."There’s also the matter of how much the heinous standard gets Played for Laughs.
One of the earlier jokes in the series involved killing an annoying bratty kid, and a family of cannibals — which is also given a dark comedy edge — so much is played off as a joke, that it'd be hard to sell a character doing more of the same being played straight.
Edited by Beast on Sep 24th 2023 at 10:50:00 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Ok, EP Time!
What is the episode?
Title is "W Rękach Bestii" ("In the Hands of Beast") and it starts with a random driver picking up a woman who screams "He will kill me!" She is covered with blood and dressed in an old man's coat and is barefoot even though it's snowy day. Later, we learn that woman is 24 years old and she has been brutally tortured. By a serial killer.
Who is Norbert Blatkiewicz and what does he do?
Norbert Blatkiewicz is the serial killer of course. Iwona (the woman) describes how he kidnapped her and brutally tortured her for a long time and claimed "You are a slut! I need to purify you of sin before I kill you!" During episode, there are reports of missing women and they even find two bodies in a river and doctors figure out they were tortured in same brutal way as Iwona. When Iwona promises to cooporate with police while in hospital, it's revealed Norbert has information on her 6 year old daughter and promises to kill her if she speaks. So Iwona is silent. Police finally come up with a plan which involves journalist lying that Iwona is planning on telling police information. So police look at cameras they installed in a hospital and see Norbert coming and putting poison in Iwona's food. Police come out and handcuff him. Iwona comes out of her room and screams "It's him!" Norbert says "I was only trying to help yo slut! I was trying to help! You will pay for that! We will meet again!" Before being taken away. Narrator reveals that it's been revealed later he killed at least 9 more women in same way, and possibly more but 9 bodies were found in the river. Of course, he was sentenced to life imprisonment.
Heinous?
I say easily! We have a mass pedophile who is listed already and I E Ped two serial killers who were downvoted due to one having very low bodycount and the other having pretty painlesss method for killing. This guy though has higher bodcount then the previous two combined! And his brutal torture before killing puts him also easily above those two! There is one more serial killer but this guy still hasn't been caught so his arc isn't over hence he isn't getting EP yet. We have other villains too but none of them can count in show like this. We have two assassins who killed a Catholic priest. And we have a man who murdered his baby son after he found out he wasn't a biological father and he wanted to his "wife" to suffer.
Verdict?
Keep him.
Edit: And in his entry he will go before Sławomir. His episode was before Sławomir's.
Edited by emperors on Sep 24th 2023 at 2:24:03 PM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Settle down. I'm leaning
for Norbert Blatkiewicz but can we get a clearer account on the other villains? And what's the bodycount of this other killer who's arc isn't done yet?
Also Lighty and Mediawatcher have Helluva Boss reserved anyway. Shouldn't we get their input first, and then decide if we should do an EP on Crimson?
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.![]()
Other villains? I only described most heinous ones. This show is a little different from W11 (it is its spiritual successor but still) and some villains simply sold drugs, others raped one person but didn't kill them. We have a man also who murdered his business partner. And I forgot of that guy but one of most heinous and hateable is a guy who raped and murdered 12 year old girl (sadly, with only one victim, he unfortunately can't count). As for that other serial killer, his bodycount for now is confirmed four... but last episode of the season (show is coming back in only a week actually!) ended with him tounting police with a recorded video and showing LOTS of girls being imprisoned by him but still alive.
Edited by emperors on Sep 24th 2023 at 2:36:50 PM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Yeah, I don't feel Crimson counts….. AT THE MOMENT. Cause there is a slight chance for him to count in the future provided he does more heinous actions, but only time will tell. Which is why I think it is best to wait until the season is officially over before any of us have any discussion on who keeps in the show.
x5 I don't think Crimson fails to I.M.P.-he actually has more kills than them, and given the extend process of how he drowns people, it'd say there's a brutality aspect as well.
Not sure about him being proposed though, mostly due to his ongoing arc.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Sep 24th 2023 at 3:13:26 PM
Just to clarify: she tries to burn four people and only kills one because that one - River - sacrifices herself for the rest; she is also responsible for the death of Smallpox, although, granted, the latter's death might count as a Redemption Equals Death moment since she isn't exactly innocent either.
Hey, got another GTA potential for us, a more minor one that might just—and I mean just—pass.
What's the work?
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories is a prequel to the game Vice City, following protagonist Victor Vance, a soldier who winds up framed and ousted from the military. Left on the streets and expected to pay for his sickly brother's hospital bills, Victor begins taking criminal jobs to make ends meet, and he winds up being one of the most moral protagonists in GTA.
The Big Bad Duumvirate of Jerry Martinez and the Mendez brothers are all 3 of them nasty pricks who have no redeeming qualities, but they're all pretty generic GTA fare. Frame-ups, drug dealing, etc. But there's an early Starter Villain that has some more unique nastiness to him.
Who is Marty? What has he done?
- A redneck, racist piece of shit who leads the small "Trailer Park Gang", Marty Jay Williams is an early quest-giver for Victor. He takes advantage of Victor's need for cash by making him engage in brutalizing stores so they have to pay Marty "protection" money, and Marty further has Victor steal multiple vehicles from people; bomb the rival gang of Cholos; and set up a brothel to pimp women out of.
- Already disgusted by Marty's actions, Victor is also witness to Marty's mistreatment of his wife, Louise, and their infant daughter Mary Beth. Marty frequently abused Louise verbally and physically, threatening to whore her out on the streets and hurt and/or kill their baby to keep her in line. Marty further reminiscences to his gang how he once raped a 14 year old girl because he "liked her boobs."
- Victor turns on Marty and helps Louise flee their home. In response, Marty orders Victor killed and kidnaps Louise, planning to forcibly make her a Sex Slave at his brothel against her will as punishment for leaving him. Luckily Victor tracks them down and kills Marty, saving Louise.
Mitigating features?
None, he's a slimeball misogynist and pig with nothing good about him.
Heinousness?
So, it's the 3D universe, same Tenpenny came from. The standard is plenty high. What Marty might have going for him, though, is twofold: resources, and unique crimes. He's a tiny little man running a small pack of rednecks, who has spent years abusing his wife and threatening their baby daughter; Mary Beth is the only real infant in the entire franchise and Marty is the only one to threaten her, making him a unique example of abusive parent and child-threatener.
Furthermore, he tries to forcibly traffick his wife on the streets as a slave—also a pretty damn unique crime for the 3D 'verse to detail onscreen. Sex crimes are rare for the 'verse and the level Marty tries to take it to is very cruel, as well as hefty with implications he'll do the same to other women what he's doing to Louise.
Now, Martinez also kidnaps and abuses Louise to hurt Victor, and the Mendez brothers wind up killing her, but Marty abused her for years and tries to turn her into a Sex Slave while having nowhere near the resources of the Big Bad duo. Coupled with repeated threatening of his own infant daughter, Marty might just squeak by for his minor role and especially nasty familial abuse.
Final Verdict?
Up to y'all!
Edited by Ravok on Sep 24th 2023 at 6:50:02 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Norbert. I’ll say sure to Marty given how nasty his familial abuse is for someone as small fry he is.
And before I forget.
- GAMERA -Rebirth-: Nora Melchiorri is a member of the Board of the Eustace Foundation, and primary leader of their conspiracy. The daughter of a prominent family descending from the Hemueden civilization, Nora previously secured her position by having her sister killed. Seeking to reinstate Hemueden's plans for the world, Nora and the Board engineer the awakening of several kaiju, with thousands of innocent people being slaughtered and devoured; the endgame being the extermination of the human race, save for those they deem "worthy" to inherit. To control the kaiju, they seek out a child with a specific genetic "code" to sacrifice. When Nora's treacherous niece, Emiko, attempts and fails to usurp her, Nora reveals a new trump card; previously having experiments preformed on an infant Gyaos, further mutating it before setting it loose to finish things off. Failing that, Nora attempts to brainwash Gamera with a virus to carry out their plans.
Edited by Beast on Sep 24th 2023 at 7:02:17 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

I’d say to wait and see with any Helluva Boss characters until they are either dead or their arc ends either way. Helluva Boss is one of those shows where the characters’ comedic moments can go either way depending on the epsiode, plus, Cimson’s comedic moments in his introduction epsiode and his second episode gives me pause (Having dildos around his house for his son, and not understanding he’s Bisexual and when he calls out to Striker to stop touching Fizzarolli, saying “I told you to watch them, not fuck them! Hands off the merchandise!”)