Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Nora
Lies and Violence!
Re: Kronos, the issue is that every proceeding Big Bad has a pretty similar apocalyptic endgoal. When that's such a recurring plot, lack of resources doesn't instantly make one stand out unless you're really bottom of the barrel. Setne, for instance, is a ghost/prisoner who nearly weasels his way into control over Apophis; causing an apocalypse from such a lowly position combined with his historical rapsheet gives him an edge the others lack.
Kronos, on the other hand, has a massive army of demigods, monsters, and at least half of the Olympian pantheon. Comparing the amount of power he can access through his host next to other gods is irrelevant at that point. The only thing that could push him over is "torturing humanity for eternity," and I don't believe that's given enough focus or detail to effectively do so.
Yes to Nora and Lucas.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If the Riordanverse versions of Setne, Fenris Wolf, and Surt (who all of have apocalyptic endgoals) and Nero (who helped Kronos and Gaea with their attempts to end the world by supplying their forcers with equipment) are qualify as Complete Monsters despite having to be compared to Kronos, Gaea, Set, and Apophis (who Al SO all have apocalyptic endgoals), then I see no logical reason why Kronos shouldn't qualify as well.
He's never indicated by to know of the other eights worlds or what acts trigger Ragnarok, unlike Fenris Wolf and Surt. He's had far less time to commit his evil deeds than Setne or Nero, as the latter has been a large for roughly eighteen centuries and the former since before his death in 1225 BCE. Setne's crimes prior to story are Offstage Villainy with no impact on the story and are not given any context, nor are the repercussions explored in-story. And his worst visible crime involves controlling the apocalypticaly powerful Apophis through blackmail using a form of magic known only to Setne himself, the Egyptian gods, and eventually Carter and Sadie Kane.
Plus, in the very first book, Kronos flawlessly orchestrates a plot to incite a civil war amongst the gods which he knows will lay waste to the entire world and cause millions of deaths, all with pretty much no resources whatsoever. And his eventual goal is stated at the end of that same book, when Luke says "Kronos will rise. You've only delayed his plans. He will cast the Olympians into Tartarus and drive humanity back to their caves. All except the strongest — the ones who serve him" and "There is a new Golden Age coming. You won't be part of it", after it's previously stated by Chiron earlier in thar book that the so-called Golden Age was actually "a time of darkness and savagery for mortals" and thar Kronos cared nothing for our kind, except as "appetizers or a source of cheap entertainment".
It just doesn't seem fair that Kronos shouldn't qualify just because other villains in this setting have also attempted to destroy the world. That's like saying that Grand Moff Tarkin (who ordered the aerial bombardment of all settlements and facilities on the planet Kamino; orders the sterilization of Geonosis, killing all but one of the planet's population of approximately 100 billion; and destroyed the planet Alderaan, killing nearly 2 billion people) from the Star Wars canon doesn't qualify Dr. Nuvo Vindi tried to engineer a galaxy-wide plague that would have killed trillions. (Tarkin is a high-ranking military governor in the Galactic Empire while Vindi is jusr a mad scientist with benefactors in a secessionist state called the Confederacy of Independent Systems.)
Edited by michaeljobson on Sep 21st 2023 at 4:52:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Just saw Expend4bles. Very fun . PM me if you're curious.
EDIT: Yes to Nora.
Edited by ACW on Sep 21st 2023 at 8:18:50 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Well this is gonna be an odd one frankly. But I’d suggest y’all head this one out.
What’s The Work?
Tetris (2023) is a biographical movie created by Jon S. Baird, which is based on, not specifically the video game, but on the backstory of HOW it got out of Russia. Focusing on American video game creator Hank Rodgers (Played by Taron Egerton) coming into the country of Russia to help beleaguered Tetrus Alexey Pajitnov (Played by Nikita Yefremov) get his game the royalties and to get the game out of the country, while being faced with legal trouble as well as the country of Soviet Union itself. Now the movie does take creative liberties for the plot and heightening the drama of the story and one of which is a specific Composite Character we’ll speak about now.
Who is Valentin Trifonov? What Does He Do?
- Played by Igor Grabuzov, Valentin, serving as an allegory of all the corrupt agents who caused The Union’s downfall, is the head of the KGB and The Central Committee in the Foreign Affairs department, Valentin is made painfully aware of his country’s near to dissolve in, and decides to get as much money as possible before he’s out of a job. This is when he decides to fight to get the money earned by Tetris.
- In the past, Valentin is one of the main sources of the misery of the Soviet Union people, seeing the miserableness of the lack of freedom and expression within the Country, holding protests and secrete parties, as well showing that the citizens are starving on the streets, lining up just to find meat and food from the already scarce sources. It’s also revealed to have personal villainy towards Alexey, as it’s revealed that when Alexey’s father attempted to speak out against the Curroption, Valentin gets his family kicked out of their home, having Alexey spend most of his life in poverty with his father passing away miserable, to which Valentin remembers fondly.
- Working with Robert Maxwell (played by Roger Allam) Constantly harassing, intimidating and having the KGB and his men spy on Hank and Alexey, Valentin sends a woman named Sasha to befriend Hank as a translator guide, and getting her to kiss Hank to blackmail him to get him out of the country. He then sends his goons to Japan to threaten Henk’s wife and three young children into getting Henk out of the country and give up, which would have left Hank and his family without a house, as he invested his own mortgage into the house, and after Hank leaves The USSR, Valentin has his goons brutally beat up the head of ELORG, Nikolai Belikov, for attempting to help out Hank and Alexey. He even threatens Alexey and his family after getting the KGB to kick them out of their home, implicatly threatening to kill Alexey’s two sons, demonstrating it by throwing it out a window (which seemingly hits someone down below).
- When Hank manages to figure out the loophole that they don’t have the rights to the game, taking Lincoln and Arakawa back to Japan to pick up Alexey and pick up the rights to Tetris from Nikolai and get back to America. Seeing them there, Valentin enters a Car Chase after them, with there clear intentions to arrest, torture and kill the four, only to be stop at the airport by Sasha, pulling a Heel–Face Turn, comes with the cavalry when Henk and the others get on the right bus, arresting Valentin for all his crimes and treason before being sent to prison.
Mitigating Factors?
None. While Valentin has a small backstory, being raised in a dirt poor farm, with his parents breaking their backs for food only to be stolen by the country, however, Valentin doesn’t seem effected by this and turned into just as horrible as in the past, only caring for money and Showing no loyalty to his country, and is portrayed as a greedy and ruthless Smug Snake who frequently mistreats his employees and treats everyone beneath him.
Heinous Standaed?
Now, initially it seems like Valentin may be a bit below standard with that being my main issue. However, Valentin is suppose to be a straight amalgamation of everything wrong with The Soviet Union, with it’s corrupt officials and it’s problems, and as that, the movie portrays Valentin as the main problem plaguing the country, with even Mikhail Gorbachev saying as much towards how the country got so bad. Running pretty much a oppressive state where they silence any opinions, and we see people lining up desperate for the scarce food, and the miserableness of the country being the driving narrative for the entire story, showing the effects of how everything is. With that, given how the other villains (Robert Maxwell, his son Kevin and Robert Stein) are all just Corrupt individuals who simply tries doing corrupt crimes, with Robert Maxwell’s more evil side of KGB back door dealings omitted, presents Valentin as significantly more evil, outright willing to harm and kill anyone, including children to get what he wants. Overall, I think Valentin manages to actually clear this.
Verdict?
Gonna go with a yes surprisingly.
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Sep 21st 2023 at 8:48:11 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Insert title here
Valentin
Dagded Dujardin
to Nora
Gentle Laborer
Nora
Abstaining on Valentin, for now.
Right now it's September 22 where I live, officially my birthday! In advance of Spooky Month, guess it's time for the usual celebratory EP. This one is very special to me.
What is the work? [REC] is one of most influential Found Footage Films in recent memory and a personal favorite of mine. The movie spawned a franchise, receiveing three sequels and its own Expanded Universe. The original film is about an apartment complex in Barcelona being quarantined thanks to the presence of a mysterious disease, trapping not only its tenants but also the reporters, firefighters and policemen who came to investigate—as you might have guessed, it soon becomes apparent that this "disease" is turning people into zombies. While the first film lacked a main villain, the sequels gave us a particularly cruel one in the form of the Monster Progenitor.
Who is the Parasite?
- A worm-like creature of demonic origins and the Big Bad of the entire series, the Parasite is directly and indirectly responsible for all the zombie outbreaks that have plagued Spain. According to the dubiously canon Historias Inéditas tie-in comic book, the demon that would one day become the Parasite arrived here via the gang-rape and the subsequent Demonic Possession of a little Portuguese girl, Tristana Medeiros, reducing her into an emaciated walking corpse and killing several people with its powers before being restrained and taken to the apartment complex in Barcelona, where Father Albelda began experimenting with Tristana's blood and discovered it had the capacity to spread the possession.
- The demon, having apparently assumed the form of a disgusting parasite, eventually got rid of Albelda and left him to starve to death in an attic. The Parasite then began to wait for someone to visit Alberta's apartment, the perfect opportunity to escape its weakened host. Simultaneously, infected rats began spreading the possession to other sections of the building, with the ensuing chaos giving the Parasite even more chances to escape.
- The films confirm that the infected behave like a Hive Mind under the control of the Parasite, and it's heavily implied that all of them are trapped in a state of perpetual pain, with no power to stop themselves from slaughtering other people. The initial infection leads to the entirety the building being either killed or possessed, leaving only reporter Ángela Vidal as the Sole Survivor—The Parasite personally bludgeoned her cameraman to death with a hammer and then transferred itself to her, finally leaving Tristana.
- Coming to the realization that it is trapped inside a quarantined building, the Parasite hatches a new plan to escape. When a SWAT team—accompanied by the doctor/priest Owen—is dispatched to deal with the infection, the Parasite resurfaces posing as Ángela and begins casually leading the team to their deaths—with the Parasite taking the opportunity to personally kill its previous host, Tristana—until only Owen and a single officer remained. The Parasite kills the officer with a shotgun and, demanding that Owen gives the order for "Ángela" to be released from the building, brutally beats him with the same shotgun. When Owen still refuses to let her go free, the Parasite finally drops the façade and reveals itself as an arrogant little prick before fatally smashing Owen's head against the floor.
- Following the complete massacre of the building and a second outbreak occurring at a wedding ceremony—infecting and killing dozens (if not up to a hundred) attendees, including children—the Parasite takes advantage of the arrival of yet another special ops team. Still posing as Ángela, the Parasite repays the kindness of a noble officer, Guzman, by leaving Ángela and taking control of his body. Despite having finally managed to escape the building, both Ángela and Guzman are taken to another quarantine onboard the ship Zaratustra, much to the Parasite's frustation.
- The Parasite repeats the same process as before and begins posing as a hero, helping the amnesiac Ángela and becoming her closest "ally". Instead of playing the long-game and waiting for the quarantine to end, the Parasite simply decides to cause some havoc and start a third outbreak For the Evulz, releasing infected monkeys and getting most of the crew killed. When Ángela again proves herself to be a veteran at surviving zombie outbreaks, the Parasite decides that it enjoys her tenacity and bravery, coming to see her as a Worthy Opponent and trying to re-possess its arch-nemesis.
- Ángela manages to shoot Guzman's throat with a harpoon, killing the host and leaving the Parasite to perish during the Zaratustra's self-destruction. Unfortunately for humanity, the final film ends with the Parasite surviving and possessing a fish, free to spread the infection again.
Mitigating Qualities? The third film and its aforementioned tie-in comic book have some major issues regarding the origin of the infection—specifically, they completely ignore the existence of the Parasite and portray the corrupted spirit of Tristana Medeiros as the real villain, with her even reminiscing about her life as an innocent girl and blaming humanity for turning her into a monster. It's a really shitty Retcon, but luckly for us, the fourth film completely throws that in the trash with the Parasite returning to the spotlight, and the implication that REC3!Tristana was merely its avatar.
Heinous? This thing is behind three different zombie outbreaks, nothing much to say here. Father Albelda performed some nasty experiments on kids but at the end of the day he was a Well-Intentioned Extremist seeking a cure for the infection.
Conclusion?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Sep 21st 2023 at 3:01:34 PM
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to the parasite!
Mind explaining the abstaining if it’s no trouble?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
That’s fair
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Sep 21st 2023 at 11:46:40 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Gentle Laborer
Just need some time to think.
The Emperor of Evil!
to the Parasite and maybe a small one for Valentin
I got a reevaluation of a character that was rejected last year, but frankly I never agreed with the rejection. Considering we loosen our standards a bit on what differentiates a Flat Character and a Generic Dooms Day Villain so I thought he might have a shot.
What's The Work?
The Book of Life is a CGI animated movie directed by Jorge Gutiérrez who also made the show called El Tigre: The Adventures of Manny Rivera. The film is about two gods of the afterlife making a bet on who would marry the daughter of the general named Maria: a young man named Manolo Sanchez (voiced by Diego) Luna) or Joaquim Emilio Mondragon Jr. The winner will switch places in ruling their respective realms, The Land of the Remembered and the Land of the Forgotten. Manolo s turned between fulfilling the expectation of his bullfighting family and following his heart. He embarks on an adventure into the After-Life after one of the gods, Xibalba, cheated on his bet and had him killed. During all of this, his town is under threat of a bandit invasion.
Who is Chakal?
The ruthless Bandit King who ages ago stole the the Medal of Everlasting Life to become an Invincible Villain, and led a raid on San Angel where he kills Joaquim's father. However, the medallion was stolen back by the god Xibalba which led to his defeat.
Now years later, Chakal steal seeks to pillage the town of its wealth and decimate it, so he sends his men to demand the people to give him all the gold and jewelry unless his forces burns the town to the ground. Joaquim, given the Medal by Xibalba, defeats the bandits but one of them notices the Medal that he wears. One of Chakal's minions informs him about the whereabouts of the Medal, Chakal now leading his forces to destroy all of San Angel (with one of his minions we see being eager trying to kill two children). During this time, he kills Manolo's father who tried to stop him.
When he arrives into the Town's church, he easily defeats Joaquim and tries to take the Medal himself. Only for a now resurrected Manolo fights him and his forces, with the help of his ancestors who aids him in the battle. Chakal decided to kidnap his Love Interest Maria and holds her hostage, demanding he gives him the Medal or else. She is then saved, and Chakal gets overpowered. Rather than accept defeat, Chakal decided to blow up the whole town with himself out of spite. This plot is stopped when Manolo attempted to perform a Heroic Sacrifice to stop Chakal, leading to Chakal's death but with our hero alive as Joaquim placed the Medal on him before Chakal could explode.
Mitigating Factor
The reason he was rejected was because he was a GDV which, tbh I don't agree with. At best he's rather flat but he has just enough personality in my opinion.
Chakal is long established as a power-hungry aggressor, and stated himself he absolutely hates including Bull Fighters (like Manolo's father), longing to retrieve the Medal so he could regain its power to become Invincible again and be unstoppable. He is also a rather greedy asshole who would pillage a town for its wealth and keep all of it for himself, or burn it to the ground if they don't comply to his demands, arrogantly scoffing off Manolo as a threat, and his last moment shows his spitefulness that if he can't have the medal he might as well take everyone with him to the afterlife by himself and the whole town up. So, in other words, he's a power-hungry, greedy, arrogant and a spitefully hateful bandit who would do anything to become powerful again. He fairs no better than say, Dormammu (who has even less screentime than he has). Again, he's a flat villain but I don't think he's at all a generic doomsday villain.
Heinous Standards
Word of God confirmed that this takes place in the same verse as Maya and the Three which already has 2 keepers in the form of Mictlan and Xtabay.
Chakal has 2 confirmed murders but what I argue pushes him is his multiple attempts to destroy a whole populated town, from trying to burn it to the ground to attempting to blow it up out of spite. I don't think the bad guys are any competition at all. Xibalba and most of Mictlan's minions minus Xtabay don't do enough and Mictlan and Xtabay are full blown deities with the former being capable of wiping out an entirely army of skilled warriors by himself. So the comparison isn't fair, I say Chakal does enough to pass the heinous standards in my opinion.
Final Verdict
I'll leave it up to you, I personally don't think the argument holds up in my opinion but I wanna see what ya'll think.
Also, that Pet the Dog that is listed on the Character page in case ya'll asking never happened in the film, but in a (used to be) planned sequel that never came.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 21st 2023 at 12:43:41 PM
Chronic lore addict
Popping back in from my absence to note for the record I've aborted my claims for Destiny 2.
For what it's worth, no antagonist from Defiance or Deep has counted, with everyone either having sympathetic moments or being ill-defined in characterization.
"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Gonna get a yes to Chakal
I Uhh might have found another Complete Monster from a shocking work (hint: Man meme). Stay tune! Again!
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Sep 21st 2023 at 12:45:30 PM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Re. Kronos... is this the book or film version that's being discussed?
Nora. It's too bad Emiko doesn't count as a CM too.
Also, I should point out that all of the the advanced sci-fi tech in Gamera: Rebirth was invented by the Eustace Foundation, and until the end — where James Tazaki literally invents a modern-day smartphone using oryllium as a power source — most of the world only has access to tech that was available in 1989.
Chakal
Edited by Arawn999 on Sep 21st 2023 at 10:34:19 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Ultimate Moral Compass
Parasite
for Nora
Never expected Tetris out of all movies to have a candidate. 
Still giving Valentin a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
. Most of his action are bog standard and I don't think he's directly responsible for the food shortage because that seems more of a symptom of the corruption of the government officials than his direct actions.
for the Parasite
for Chakal
@Arawn999: The book version.
Edited by NTG on Sep 21st 2023 at 11:20:53 AM
The book version. The one I'm trying to get approved of.
Edited by michaeljobson on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:08:51 PM
Messenger from another dimension.
No to Valentin. Great movie, but Valentin is very standard.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Ah. I thought you were talking about the movie version given the earlier post.
Not the Eye
to Parasite and Chakal
to Valentin
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the Parasite and Chakal.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts