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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#26226: Sep 20th 2023 at 7:21:03 PM

[tup] Paimon


Well, it's that time of year again, Octob- I mean, mid-September, so that means... Halloween Horror Nights! And right off the bat I've got a fun one for you all; you've heard of horror attractions based on movies, TV shows, video games, and even musicians, but how about one based... on a ride?

What are the works?

Dueling Dragons was a pair of dueling roller coasters at Universal Studios Islands of Adventure. Guests would go through the themed queue to learn the story of the ride, then choose to ride either the blue Ice Dragon coaster or the red Fire Dragon coaster, which would near-miss each other and intertwine their tracks. Good fun, plus had a story, sadly defunct.

This year, at Universal's Halloween Horror Nights, they made a haunted house that tells the origin story of the two dragons, Dueling Dragons: Choose Thy Fate. And said dragons are nasty entities.

Who are Pyrock and Blizzrock? What have they done?

As revealed in the haunted attraction, Pyrock and Blizzrock were once a pair of evil warlocks specializing in fire and ice magic (You'll never guess which is which), constantly in conflict with each other and always seeking more power.

When the heroic wizard Merlyn is transformed into an Enchanted Oak after a mishap with the mythical Lady of the Lake, both warlocks see an opportunity to steal his magical spellbook and finally have the power to destroy anyone in their path, but most importantly one another. They simultaneously gather their armies of demons and monsters to lay siege on Merlyn's castle.

In the haunt, narrated by Merlyn, the two warlocks begin their conquest by razing the Fairy Forest, attacking with their hordes of minions and personally freezing travelers and burning fairies to death just on their way to the castle. Upon arriving at the castle, they attack and slaughter without mercy, freezing and scorching any knights and guards that get in their way, as well as jumping out and attacking guests. The royal family is murdered and left to be devoured by their demonic minions, all while the two warlocks' forces fight each other every chance they get as well. They finally happen upon the spellbook, but Merlyn trapped it by placing a powerful curse upon it. As soon as the two warlocks touch it, they begin the horrific transformation into dragons. Transformed, the two dragons are lost to rage and attack each other, locking in a eternal battle with one another. In the ending of the attraction, guests either are congratulated by a freed Merlyn for protecting the spellbook, or see either a re-humanized Pyrock or Blizzrock holding his decapitated head (I'm gonna guess this one is non-canon, since they're both dragons in the story of the original ride).

This brings us to the original Dueling Dragons ride, where guests travel through the besieged castle. The story is told in the queue, once again narrated by Merlyn, who says that for years knights have tried to take back the castle by slaying the dragons, but none have succeeded. Merlyn informs the guests that they will be unable to slay the dragons either, so their only hope of escape is to sneak onto and ride one of the dueling dragons out of the castle. As guests make their way through the long, heavily-themed queue, they are met with the scorched and melted victims of Pyrock, who has gone so far as to melt pieces of their armor into the walls as a form of macabre warning. Blizzrock is no better, with a chamber full of frozen knights and horses on the walls and ceiling. As guests get closer to where the dragons fight, they travel through a mass grave of charred and frozen skeletons before reaching the dragons (the ride vehicles themselves), hopping on either Pyrock of Blizzrock, and riding out of the castle while the two dragons fight. The ride, and story, ends with the implication that the two evil dragons will remain fighting each other for the rest of eternity (or until 2007 when they re-themed it to Harry Potter and in 2017 when they closed and scrapped it).

Heinous standard?

They're the two main antagonists of their rides/attractions, and set the standard. In the original ride they're the only two living characters aside from Merlyn, and in the prequel attraction they're the leaders of unnamed armies.

Mitigating factors

In the original attraction, we get hints at the dragons' agency and malevolence just by them arranging the bodies of their victims, but don't get much in the way of motivation or personality aside from "they're dueling each other and will stop and kill anyone who tries to intervene". However, the 2023 haunt gives us a full origin story by making them both wicked, power-hungry warlocks who absolutely hate each other and are willing to kill anyone in their way, even if its just needless cruelty like the Fairy Forest, which was just on the way to their destination and goal.

Verdict

Another odd case, but I say [tup]. Never thought I would be proposing literal roller coasters.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
michaeljobson Since: Jan, 2022
#26227: Sep 20th 2023 at 8:48:38 PM

I know Kronos from Percy Jackson & The Olympians was previously proposed and rejected four years ago, but I don't think the previous post QUITE covered the full extent of his heinousness. Before we begin, I'm only going to use content from the main series of stories since the companion book Percy Jackson's Greek Gods is humorous and irrelevant retelling of Greek myths told from Percy's point of view and contradicts with some of the information from the main series. (E.g. in The Battle of The Labyrinth, Hephaestus says that Hera hurled him from Mount Olympus instead of Zeus and adds "Mother likes telling that version of the story. Makes her seem more likeable, doesn't it? Blaming it all on my dad", but in Percy Jackson's Greek Gods, he is said to have been hurled from Olympus twice: first by Hera, and then by Zeus. Likewise, in The Last Olympian, Hestia says that when Dionysus was made a god, she gave up her throne for him to prevent a civil war among the gods, but in Percy Jackson's Greek Gods, it's stated that Hestia was too modest to accept having a throne in the first place. And in The Mark of Athena, Otis and Ephialtes are established to be part of the breed of giants who can only be killed by gods and demigods working together and are stated to have been killed in The First Giant War by Dionysus back when he was still a demigod fighting alongside one of the Olympians, but Percy Jackson's Greek Gods has them dying in a seemingly separate conflict wherein Artemis tricks them into attacking and killing each other.)

Who Is He?

Kronos, the King of the Titans, the Titan Lord of Time, and the Big Bad of the first series in the Camp Half-Blood Series saga, Percy Jackson & The Olympians.

What Has He Done?

•He killed his father Ouranos by cutting him to pieces with a scythe provided to him by his mother Gaea after she offered him world domination if he agreed to the task following Ouranos's unjust imprisonment of their six eldest children — the three Elder Cyclopes and the three Hekatonkheires — in Tartarus (the primordial, a place of pain and suffering with acid air, water of sadness, and the ground made of broken glass). This patricide is first mentioned in passing in The Lightning Thief Chapter 21, and again, but with much more context, in Chapter 40 of The Lost Hero Chapter XL, while the results are visible in The Titan's Curse Chapter 17.

•While Gaea slumbered in peace during Kronos's reign, he broke the promise he made to her that he would free the Cyclopes and Hekatonkheires, and instead left them to their fate, even personally hiring Kampê to guard them. While in his employ, she tortured the Cyclopes and Hekatonkheires endlessly for millennia until his children, the six eldest Olympian gods and goddesses, freed them to help them in their war against him. The lost-lasting effects of the torture are evident in The Battle of The Labyrinth Chapter 7, when our heroes meet a Hekatonkheire who's been recaptured for Kronos by a recently resurrected Kampê and is so terrified of her that he refuses to even free himself when given the chance.

•According to his out-of-wedlock son Chiron, Kronos's reign, the so-called Golden Age, was "a time of darkness and savagery for mortals", and Kronos cared nothing for us except as "appetizers or a source of cheap entertainment". It was only after Kronos was overthrown and Prometheus brought us fire that our species began to progress. This is why Chiron and his students strive to prevent Kronos from reclaiming control of the world and starting a new Golden Age. When Luke outs himself as an agent of Kronos, he says "[Kronos] will cast the Olympians into Tartarus and drive humanity back to their caves. All except the strongest — the ones who serve him".

•When Kronos's wife Rhea bore him five children, he ate them alive out of fear that they might overthrow him. So Rhea secretly gave birth to a sixth child who, after reaching adulthood, infiltrated his palace and slipped an emetic into his drink which forced him to disgorge his other five childrem who, being immortal gods, had been living and growing up completely undigested in his stomach all that time. This vile deed is immortalized in artwork, including a stele that Chiron shows Percy in The Lightning Thief while having Percy recount the entire story behind it.

•After the gods defeated him, cut him to pieces, and scattered his remains in Tartarus, Kronos spent the next few millennia entering mortals' nightmares and breathing evil thoughts.

•In The Lightning Thief, Kronos has Luke steal Zeus's Master Bolt and Hades's Helm of Darkness and frame Percy in order to start a three-way war amongst the gods. When Chiron asks Percy if he knows what a full-fledged war of the gods would look like, and Percy uncertainty replies "Bad?", Chiron says "Imagine the world in chaos. Nature at war with itself. Olympians forced to choose sides between Zeus and Poseidon. Destruction. Carnage. Millions dead. Western civilization turned into a battleground so big it will make the Trojan War look like a water-balloon fight"._

•The Sea of Monsters, it's revealed that Kronos's now had Luke poison Thalia's tree, putting everybody at Camp Half-Blood in serious danger of being killed by monsters as part of a ploy to force the campers to go on a quest to find the Golden Fleece so that Luke can steal it from them afterwards and use its power to return Kronos to full power.

•When Percy first sneaks aboard Kronos's army's main transport ship, the Princess Andromeda, in The Sea of Monsters, it has many mortals on it, including a father and his elementary school-aged daughters, but they're under some sort of trance so they don't know they're on a monster infested ship. When Percy boards the ship again 3 years later in The Last Olympian, all the mortals are gone. Percy's narration reads: "I hated to think what had happened, but I kind of doubted they'd been allowed to go home with their bingo winnings". His theory is well founded since that the first time he snuck aboard the ship, Luke tried to feed him to a drakon in the cargo hold.

•In The Titan's Curse, Kronos intends to sway Thalia to his side and get her to kill the Ophiotaurus and burn the latter's entrails in order to attain the power to destroy the gods.

•In The Battle of The Labyrinth, Kronos punishes Luke for a failure by taking him as a host body and subsuming his personality with Kronos's own, therefore giving Luke a Fate Worse Than Death. Kronos does this knowing full well that whatever host body he takes will eventually be burned away as his original body re-forms. He then orders an invasion of Camp Half-Blood using the Labyrinth, which has an entrance hidden between two rocks in the forest surrounding the camp. Many campers and nature spirits die defending their home.

•In the The Last Olympian, Kronos and the Princess Andromeda make way for an assault on Manhattan, but Percy and his friend Beckendorf are sent to destroy the ship. Having been tipped off by his spy at camp that Percy and Beckendorf would be coming, Kronos sets a trap for them, leading to Beckendorf's death.

•It's revealed shorty afterwards that Kronos also has Oceanus engaged in a year-long war with Poseidon to keep him occupied. When Percy meets up with Poseidon at the edge of his palace complex, the narration reads: "I looked down at the courtyards below and saw hundreds of wounded mermen lying on makeshift cots. I saw rows of coral mounds that must've been hastily made graves. I realized Beckendorf wasn't the first death. He was only one of hundreds, maybe thousands".

•Kronos's also revealed to have revived Typhon from beneath Mt. St. Helens to leave a trail of destruction across the USA and to serve as a distraction to the Olympians. The gods' battle against Typhon goes on for 8 days, across multiple states, as the gods attempt to stop him from reaching New York. When Chiron shows his students the progress on the 3rd day, Percy's narration reads: "Lines of tornadoes destroyed everything in their path — ripping up houses and trailers, tossing cars around like Matchbox toys. *Monumental floods,* an announcer was saying. *Five states declared disaster areas as the freak storm system sweeps east, continuing its path of destruction*".

•Leading an invasion force made up of hundreds of monsters into Manhattan from every bridge and tunnel, Kronos has Morpheus and Hecate cast a spell that puts all of the mortals in or near Manhattan to sleep just as the invasion starts, then slows the time of people coming to Manhattan so nobody can enter until the battle's over. The sleeping spell persists throughout the battle, which itself lasts 3 days, during which campers and their allies must drag sleeping mortals out of harm's way. When Percy watches the sunrise on the second day, his narration reads: "A plume of black smoke curled into the sky somewhere over Harlem. I wondered how many ovens had been left on when the Morpheus spell hit; how many people had fallen asleep in the middle of cooking dinner. Pretty soon there would be more fires. Everyone in New York was in danger — and all those lives depended on us".

•Kronos also callously sacrifices several of his own demigod troops in order to gain an advantage while fighting Percy on the Williamsburg Bridge on the first night.

•Soon after learning that if Kronos succeeds in destroying Olympus, it'll cause the gods to fade, Percy is contacted by Dionysus, who tells him, "If Olympus falls, not only will the gods fade, but everything that is connected to our legacy will also begin to unravel. The very fabric of your puny little civilization — [.....] Your entire society will dissolve. Perhaps not right away, but mark my words, the chaos of the Titans will mean the end of Western civilization. Art, law, wine tastings, music, video games, silk shirts, black velvet paintings — all the things that make life worth living will disappear!".

•When Chiron stands between Kronos and Olympus, the Titan king mocks his son amd orders him to step aside. When Chiron refuses, Kronos sends him flying into the side of a building with such force the wall crumbles and collapses on top of him, smiling smugly afterwards.

•When Kronos's demigod lieutenant Ethan Nakamura rebels against him at the last second after realizing that Kronos's actions won't bring about balance, which Ethan is trying to achieve, he sends Ethan falling to his death.

Mitigating Factors?

None. He's never given any Freudian Excuse nor indicated to care for anyone or anything except his own hunger for power. While he might have loved his Rhea in the past, there's no indication that he continued to love after she deceived him and enabled their children to overthrow him. Considering he never looks for her during his revival, he most likely doesn't.

Heinousness?

Let's see. This guy wants to destroy not only the Olympians, but also the very fabric of human civilization, and to drive our entire species back to the stone age, then go back to snacking on us and torturing us for his own amusement for all eternity. And to this end, he plots to incite a civil war amongst the gods which he will result in the deaths of millions of humans worldwide, orders a year-long siege that kills thousands of merman just to keep Poseidon busy, unleasheses a colossal Storm Giant to cause massive destruction of cities and states across America merely as a diversion for the gods, and callously endangers 10 million New Yorkers (this is the number stated in Percy's first-person narration in The Last Olympian Chapter 10) in order to reach Olympus, unconcerned with the very real possibilities of the mortal city burning or its inhabitants getting eaten by the monsters in his invasion army. Doesn't get much more heinous than that.

Besides, it's unfair to compare him to either Gaea or Apophis since Gaea, as the physical embodiment of the earth, is vastly more powerful than any of the Olympians, giants and Titans, while Apophis is Egyptian manifestation and embodiment of chaos, so his power's apocalyptic in proportion. In addition, both Gaea and Apophis manage to return to full power in their respective final battles, whereas Kronos never regains his original body. He has to use a demigod host body — which inhibits many of his powers — and is ultimately destroyed when Luke sacrifices himself before Kronos can burn through Luke's body and attain his true divine form.

He also can't be compared to Loki or Fenris Wolf (who both actively seek to usher in Ragnarok, knowing full well it will culminate in the burning of the Nine Worlds and the deaths many Norse gods and all but two mortals), or Surt (who will incinerate the Nine Worlds with his full power during the final battle of Ragnarok, and has longed to do so since the dawn of time), as there's no indication that he knows what acts trigger Ragnarok, or even that the Nine Worlds exist, since Kronos's a Greek deity while the Nine Worlds and Ragnarok are both from NORSE mythology, and by-and-large the various gods and mythologies within this 'Verse avoid interaction in a sort of deliberate Mutual Masquerade. (In The Red Pyramid, after Amos explains the 21st Nome's on the east shore of the East River because the east bank of the Nile's traditionally considered the side of the living, Sadie asks "So you can't live in Manhattan", and Amos replies "Manhattan has other problems. Other gods. It's best we remain seperate". Later, when the Kanes need an obelisk to open a portal, the Egyptian goddess Bast says “There’s a nearer one in Central Park. I try to avoid Manhattan, but this is an emergency.” And in the second The Trials of Apollo novel The Dark Prophecy, when Apollo confirms Thalia's theory that Olujime is not descended from any Greek/Roman gods, but a different pantheon entirely, Apollo adds “He mentioned the Yoruba, though I admit I know very little about their ways").

He also lacks the absurd capital of Triumvirate Holdings, who are revealed in The Hidden Oracle to have FUNDED Kronos's war in the original pentology, supplying his army with the Princess Andromeda, weapons, helicopters and top human mercenaries. In addition, Triumvirate Holdings have existed in the shadows for roughly eighteen centuries (the Triumvirate's youngest member, Commodus, joined some time after his original death in 192 CE), accruing wealth and power while influencing many events throughout history, whereas Kronos only rises in the series' present day, and spends the whole of the first book as a nigh-powerless, disembodied spirit with no minions besides Luke, yet still manages to orchestrate a near-successful plot to throw the whole world into chaos and cause millions of deaths for his own gain.

Even comparing him to the ghost magician Setne might be unfair, seeing as the latter's worst visible crime (trying to seize control of Apophis through blackmail, and with the intention of feeding Apophis many souls in the afterlife and then unleashing him to destroy most of the world so Setne can rule the rest) is only made possible by Setne's creation of the shadow execration spell — a spell that most beings are completely unaware of due to the very nature of the sheut/shadow being a closely guarded secret among the Egyptian gods. In addition, Setne's been at large for roughly *3235 years*, ever since he escaped oblivion and returned to the mortal world to contunue sowing chaos following his death around the year 1224 BCE.

On the whole, Kronos really seems to do the worst can with the resources and time he's been given to work with. Plus, he arguably has the worst plans for humanity than any other Big Bag in this setting. While the others simply seek to subjugate or even exterminate all of humanity, Kronos's endgoal is nothing short of torturing humankind forever.

Final Verdict?

Yes to Kronos.

Edited by michaeljobson on Sep 21st 2023 at 5:39:46 AM

umaprasis Since: Jul, 2023
#26228: Sep 20th 2023 at 9:00:30 PM

I have a question, does anyone think that General Denuce from Loonatics Unleashed could count? I recently saw a video talking a this being a dark Looney tunes series and I from what I heard this character is the worst.

Edited by umaprasis on Sep 20th 2023 at 9:06:17 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#26229: Sep 20th 2023 at 9:20:32 PM

Yes to Pyrock and Blizzrock; Kronos is a bit too long for me to read, I think it could do with some trimming, it's pretty meaty.

[up] As one of the few people who seems to have watched this show lmao I would say I don't really think anyone counts, multiple villain of the week types try to destroy entire cities/the world yet are played as typical Saturday morning cartoon villains and while Deuce is the final boss, his goals never get anywhere close to being anything being generically vague "conquer the galaxy", IIRC.

The closest to this trope, I would say, are the Ringmaster and his jester sidekick dude who kidnap dozens of men, women and even children to mutate into beasts for their "circus" in one episode, but even they are kind of tempered by the fact that the victims are easily turned back to normal at the end and show no real negative effects of the mutations. So it's kind of "eh".

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#26230: Sep 20th 2023 at 9:25:36 PM

[tup] to Pyrock and Blizzrock.

ultimate_life_form Since: Aug, 2019
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#26232: Sep 20th 2023 at 10:26:51 PM

After talking with Ravok, this guy might be worth a shot. And I will copy from the description I made for the trope page.

What is Eco Fighters?

"Eco Fighters is a horizontal scrolling shooter set in the future where advanced space travelling allowed mankind to spread across the universe and start new colonies on other planets. But corrupt companies sought to exploit this to line their pockets, the most corrupt being Goyolk K.K. whose machinery reduced planets to barren wastelands called dread spheres with Doctor Moly taking two of the machines Goyolk dumped illegally and rebuilding them so that his niece and nephew can stand a chance against the corporation and stop its planet killing spree once and for all."

Who is Kernal Goyolk?

As the founder of Koyolk K.K., Kernal Goyolk has made it his lifelong goal to make make as many resources his own as he can by strip mining multiple planets which turns them into barren wastelands called "Dread Spheres" without caring how many lives are at stake and earned his reputation as the evil "Shadow of the Milky Way" who aimed to control the entire universe's economy, using his personal private army to carry out his dirty deeds.

As shown with his invasion of the game's setting planet Elwood, his actions resulted in environmental damage such as trees being needlessly cut down, smog coating the skies, the oceans getting polluted, and huge amounts of junk being illegally dumped. But one of the worst crimes he had was activating a sky plant, resulting in acid rain dumping onto an entire city, which is explicitly spelled out to result in many deaths.

To put a stop to all this carnage, Dr. Moly salvaged two of the flying machines Goyolk dumped illegally and rebuilt them so that his niece and nephew can fight off Goyolk's forces and eventually drive them off the planet at his underground base which continues into outer space where they pursue them and continue their fight to weaken Goyolk's forces.

Eventually, they manage to face off against Goyolk in a giant robot and destroy it, putting an end to his reign of terror on the universe.

Heinous Standard

Goyolk sets it, he invaded multiple planets prior to the game and stripped them down until all of them were reduced to barren wastelands we call "Dread Spheres" and explicitly used his sky plant to spread "violence and death" across a city's population with its acid rain.

No other actual villains appear in the game at all; thus, he has no competition.

Mitigating Factors

Supposedly, he'd use the resources he'd be after in the name of development, but being the greedy scoundrel he is, he'd rather keep the resources for himself and use them to line his pockets without showing any care for how many lives will be lost as a result of his actions.

While he does promise to leave Elwood alone, he subverts that by saying "that never happen" and shows himself a Sore Loser the first time he gets defeated and proclaimed in the next level that he is not going to lose that easily.

Now, I've talked with Ravok and Goyolk most certainly has enough character with all the dialog we get from him and Dr. Moly. There are also a handful of objects in the game that indicate him to be a Narcissist such as a giant robot modelled after him, his face sculpted into part of a mountain, and machinery that shows visages of his face.

Verdict

Leaning yes.

IPP Wick Check created.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#26233: Sep 20th 2023 at 11:38:40 PM

Yes there as we discussed Joseph

Just letting folks know I'll have Starfield discussion tomorrow, while I'm still going through the game there's really one to talk about at this juncture.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#26234: Sep 21st 2023 at 12:00:07 AM

[tup] for Immortalis. Doesn't looks like she cares about her mother.

[tup] for the Dueling Dragons

[tup] for Kronos. But that EP was far to long. We don’t need every single detail. For example: It’s enough to tell us that he awoken a Titan who caused huge tornado that killed many people and that the heroes see how much destruction it caused on TV instead of giving us a detailed and rather long description of Percy thoughts.

[tup] for Goyolk

[tdown] to the image from Freedom Planet. As other's have said it's a bit hard to tell what's going on.

@Siegfried1337: I say go for it. After such a long time there should be no problem.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#26235: Sep 21st 2023 at 1:14:56 AM

I uh dunno about Kronos. Even his plan is kinda outdone by set who wanted to destroy north America and create an entire world of chaos where you know people got hunted by set beasts. And he's also just a possessor type God in that he needs a host like here to interact.

It A bit of an issue when like every single main villain afterward tries to you know blow up the planet or kill off humanity.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#26236: Sep 21st 2023 at 1:44:54 AM

Btw I'm gonna reserve discussion for the comic miniseries Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles/Stranger Things for myself and mir...only one issue left to go and it's looking like we're gonna get at least another take on the Mind Flayer/Vecna out of it.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#26237: Sep 21st 2023 at 1:53:28 AM

Ok, as a reminder, due to krimzonflygon2's absence from the site for 1.5 years, Parallel Paradise and School-Live! are up for grabs in regards to discussion.

Eh, good enough.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#26238: Sep 21st 2023 at 2:41:53 AM

Yes to the rollercoaster dragons.

Sure to Goyolk, assuming we see enough of his devastation.

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#26239: Sep 21st 2023 at 3:03:30 AM

[tup] for the Dragons and Goyolk.

I'm honestly leaning [tdown] for Kronos, he's certainly bad, but later villains in the franchise escalate so much that even with the resources argument, I'm just not sure he holds up.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#26240: Sep 21st 2023 at 3:31:34 AM

Okay can someone give me a summary of the other Percy Jackson villains? Kronos sounds bad but if every other villain tries to destroy the world I'm not sure he does enough.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#26241: Sep 21st 2023 at 3:45:49 AM

Yes to the Dragons and Goyolk.

Kronos's EP is too long.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#26242: Sep 21st 2023 at 5:06:07 AM

[up][up]

  • Gaia plans to wipe out humanity. She also tried to burn Leo's mother alive put of spite.

  • Seth plans to turn north america into a lifless dessert and ravage the world with chaos. To the point he has murials depicting how monsters will hunt them. He also murders his brother Osirijs.... Waits for his Sister isis to succcwfully revive him. And than kills him again (tbf this is because he wanted revenge for them hurting his grandfather Ra)

  • Apophis intends to destroy all of creation.
  • Setne tried to desytuy and rwmaake the wllrd using Apophis.
  • Loki intends to kick off Ragnarok and end the nine realms.

  • Surtur started the great fire and also palnw to end the nine Realam

  • Fenris wants to end the non realms as Surtur's partner. And spitefully kills Magnus mother as well as cannibisling people.

  • Nero raises kids as his child soldiers and tries to gas new York.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#26243: Sep 21st 2023 at 5:56:56 AM

I’m going to have write ups done next week with disenchanted discussion. Hang tight. Also relinquishing Gamera.

Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 21st 2023 at 5:57:11 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#26244: Sep 21st 2023 at 6:10:58 AM

[tup] to the Dragons and Golyolk

[tdown] to Kronos

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#26245: Sep 21st 2023 at 6:21:25 AM

Lean [tup] to Immortalis

[tup] to Dragons and Goyolk

[tdown] to Kronos

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#26246: Sep 21st 2023 at 6:30:42 AM

  • Oldboy (2013): Arthur Price is Adrian’s father, who’s actions kickstart the series despite being long dead. Sexually abusing his two children for years, while manipulating them into thinking it was love, Arthur moved his family overseas after his actions were exposed, and proceeding to slaughter his family and himself to escape his crimes, and his actions driving Adrian, who survived the attack, to take revenge on Joe for causing his father’s death.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#26247: Sep 21st 2023 at 7:02:56 AM

Mir: Geeze, it seems the heinous standard is too high for ANYONE to count.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#26248: Sep 21st 2023 at 7:04:21 AM

Uh we have Surt, Fenrir, Nero and setne up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#26249: Sep 21st 2023 at 7:08:02 AM

Why dosen’t Loki count btw?

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#26250: Sep 21st 2023 at 7:10:50 AM

Yeah, the destruction of the Nine Realms gives Surt and Fenris a much wider range than most villains, Setne gets by on low resources, and Nero aids a bunch of these apocalypse plots while doubling down on personal villainy. [up] Loki loved his sons, and is pissed at the Asgardians for gruesomely murdering them.

No to Kronos, yes to Pyrock, Blizzrock, and Kernal.


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