Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
The literary Cthulhu Mythos and the Chaosium Call of Cthulhu properties are two entirely different continuities. Hence we treat them as separate entities. How Chaosium defines the Severn Mythos relation with the Cthulhu Mythos proper is irrelevant as to how Ramsay Campbell himself defines it.
My write-up:
- La California: Gualtiero Malagoli is the sleazy owner of a polluting ceramics factory, which he inherited after killing his wife and father-in-law by tampering with their car. Lusting after the twins Ester and Alice ever since the latters are teenagers, Malagoli preys on Ester's emotional fragility after she overhears him letting slip his crimes (which include trafficking cocaine), promising her a huge sum of money to leave the titular town in exchange for a night with him. When Alice shows up at the intended place pretending to be Ester and tries to take the money, Malagoli forces himself on her, revealing to have done so to other women before as this is his only way to get aroused. When his henchman tries to defuse the situation, Malagoli shoots him before strangling Alice and trying to set up the death as a suicide. Willing to do anything to satisfy his lust and greed, Malagoli stands out as a totally corrupt individual that darkens the atmosphere of the while film.
I have a proposal for a one-shot villain in Murder Drones. Shes the main antagonist in the recent episode "Dead End"
Who is she? What has she done?
Alice is a feral Worker Drone who was abandoned by Uzi's mom, Nora, and has become psychopath due to being trapped in the underground labs.
Alice is fist introduced where alongside her robot partner, Beau, she ambushes Uzi, N and V by having Beau distract them long enough for her to knock them out via stun bomb. When Uzi wakes up, she sees Alice axing a Worker Drone corpse of its head and dropping it into a bucket labeled 'Heads".
Alice attempts to do the same thing to a still-concious V, but Uzi warns her about the horrible creature V will become if Alice axes her. Alice responds by opening a nearby oven, revealing several body parts in jars, staring that "this isn't their first rodeo".
Alice then goes over to Uzi and mocks her about her dead mother before stabbing her in the hand and slicing her finger so it can drip oil. Later when Tessa and N escape, Alice locks the door they through so they can get back in and opens the third door, which releases the Sentinel robots she's been using. This implies that she's the one who sent those Sentinels after the scared drone in the beginning of the episode, which they then corner, stun and proceed to violently mutilate.
The Sentinels find N and proceeds to mutilate him as well and attempt to kill Tessa when she tries to calm them, only for the Sentinels to chomp her arm. Alice is seen watching the Sentinels viciously attack N and Tessa and reacts with sadistic glee, even eating popcorn while the Sentinels attack the two.
However, Uzi under the Absolute Solver's control, opens all the doors, allowing the Sentinels to go through the doors near Alice. Alice attempts to escape before being stunned, stomped on to death by the Sentinel and is entirely killed off.
Heinous Standard?
Okay this is the tricky part since this is a series where death and murder is extremely common. However the perpetrators tend to either be Laughably Evil, a Tragic Villain, or are just doing what they were programmed to do. Heck even Cyn has a soft spot for Tessa.
Alice however has none of these. While she was abandoned in the underground lab, her onscreen actions and sadism downplay this. Plus with all the killing she does, she's not a Murder Drone, nor is she controlled by an out of control program like Doll is, Alice commits her actions entirely of her free will, yet does them anyway. None of her killings are ever taken comically and she herself is never taken comically. Combine this with her bad behavior towards her partner and this episode showcases how vile Alice is.
Mitigating Factors?
As stated above, Alice was abandoned by Nora, however her actions are so reprehensible that this is overall downplayed. Alice is never shown to care for her partner, Beau and has less resources than both the humans and Cyn.
Alice has no redeeming or laughable qualities.
Verdict?
I'll let you guys decide but I would give this a slight
Edited by TBmacho22 on Sep 16th 2023 at 7:56:27 AM
For Alice, I have a slight concern about "and has become psychopath due to being trapped in the underground labs", is this played as a sort of Go Mad from the Isolation or what?
I think I need to watch this episode myself to get a better bearing on Alice.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.So, one thing about Alice is one line she has. I disagree with her being tragic but this line makes me worry.
Also, while she's clearly crazy, it's not the amoral type of crazy, she is able to trick others and it's never shown her having any insane delusions, just her cutting people's body parts for their value towards her.
Edited by TrippEverett on Sep 16th 2023 at 5:59:32 AM
Alice isn't to insane from being trapped in the labs in my eyes, she understands her surroundings, never imagines things, and doesn't do any of her actions due to her insanity.
Also, don't think she's tragic either-it's not played sympathetically, none of what happened to her motivates her actions, she killed her fellow test subjects for no reason, and she isn't afraid of the Absolute Solver until it actually threatens her plans.
With that being said, I can see why some might want to wait on her due to it being possible more about her shows up in the coming episodes. Personally, I'm abstaining in case her backstory does get played for sympathy later on for whatever reason.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Sep 16th 2023 at 9:21:50 AM
I think I'm in the same boat, I think it's best to save the EP for now and wait until the season finished just in case. But yeah, none of her "migrating qualities" are actually migrating, especially she is a complete hypocrite who killed more subjects than Nori ever did.
Yeah, definitely.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Sep 16th 2023 at 6:39:42 AM
Yeah, having just seen the episode, I'm abstaining.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Now, before you say "but Joe, this character already got rejected", there is something that I overlooked that I think could change things. If you want, just skip to the "are they bad enough part" if you didn't already vote on the previous proposal on Chord.
What is the work?
Open Windows is a 2014 Spanish-American found footage mystery-thriller film directed by Nacho Vigalondo and starring Elijah Wood.
Nick Chambers gets the opportunity to meet his favortie actress, Jill Goddard. However, Jill supposedly decided to not honor the contest, according to her manager, Chord. As such, Chord makes an offer Nick can’t refuse: the ability to view Jill secretly via computer. Nick begins watching the unknowing star on her webcam, stalking her through her calls and phone, and even tracking her to a hotel room not far from his.
But as these activities constantly put him in trouble, Nick starts to question Chord's actions and his identity. Unfortunately for Nick, Chord isn't quite finished with him or Jill yet...
Simon Chord is the main antagonist of the film. He is a psychopathic cyberterrorist with a fixation on Jill Goddard, even worse than Nick Chambers'. He makes contact with Nick Chambers, the webmaster of a Jill Goddard fan site who won dinner with her, and poses as her manager. Appearing as a friendly man who wants to help Nick get revenge for Jill canceling the contest, Nick is convinced to work with Chord and spy on Jill and her agent Tony from their hotel room. When Tony gets suspicous enough to check Nick's room, Chord has Nick knock Tony unconscious when he walks in and leave the hotel.
When Nick starts to question Chord's motives and his real identity, Chord begins to threaten Nick, showing to have video of Nick putting Tony out cold and that the entire contest he won was a fraud. He also threatens to harm Jill if Nick doesn't follow through on his demands. To get Nick to transmit a hack that will enable him to interact with Jill through her laptop, Chord tells Nick to be close to Jill's house, demonstrating that he is nearby and capable of killing her. From there, Chord holds Tony prisoner while zapping him with escalating electric shocks to compel Jill to strip nude, which Chord very much enjoys, using Nick as a conduit for his orders. When Nick attempts to warn Jill of the threat, Chord storms in and kidnaps Jill. He then kills several police squads by luring them to Jill's house, which Chord then blows up.
The Triops, Nick's new hacker allies, are still there to support him, but they are worried that Chord is really "Nevada," a troubled hacker who has participated in countless anarchist operations. They lead Nick to follow Chord's car which later gets into an accident, with Jill in the trunk. Chord's accident leads to a massive car chase, which endangers multiple civilians, as well as Nick and Jill. After the chase, Nick also crashes. They eventually realize that Chord actually murdered Nevada took his tools, and bombed his warehouse. Nick tries to save Jill because he is angry that she has been hurt. After finding and killing Nick, Chord breaks into the whole Internet, replacing almost every website with a preview for Jill's revealing video. Millions of people are then tricked into watching Jill's death livestreamed. It is revealed the stream was faked, as Chord wanted to show Jill that the world doesn't really care about her. Jill cooperates with Chord, but when he lets down his guard, she runs away.
In an unexpected turn of events, it is revealed that Chord had been duped by Nick the entire time and that "Nick" was actually Nevada, and the real Nick was fine. Nevada confesses that the entire situation was a ruse to get rid of Chord. Just before explosives blow up the plant, murdering Chord in his own trap, Nevada and Jill make their way to safety in a bunker.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
No. Chord is shown to be extremely psychopathic and sadistic, putting Nick and Jill through psychological torture, even severely torturing Jill's agent, and seems to enjoy when Jill is forced to strip in front of her webcam. While Chord seems to just want to show Jill the truth about her fans, he still attempts to kill her, and as Jill points out, there were plenty other ways to do that.
Are they bad enough?
Unlike before, I think he does count. Chord lures dozens of SWAT members and kills them in an explosion. He also starts a car chase that endangers multiple civilians and cops. Also in thanks to Chord's psychological torture of Jill and Nick, the severe torture of Jill's agent, his sadism when coercing Jill to strip nude, livestreaming Jill's "death" to millions of people on the internet pushes him past the baseline, as well as Chord's extreme personal cruelty towards Nick. Even Nevada, who already led multiple anarchist operations, without hurting anyone, was disgusted by Chord's crimes.
Final verdict?
I think a
to this psycho cracker. Sorry I missed out on this info the first time.
Edited by JoeBertInc on Sep 16th 2023 at 11:50:02 AM
for Lionel
Giving Alice a
. Doesn't sound like she's genuinely insane. But I do wonder about how bad the other villains are. The EP states that they have redeeming qualities but what about their body counts compared to Alice?
for Chord with the added details. Why did he lure the cops to the house in the first place?
Also after some consideration I'll give Parallel a
Yes to Lionel and Chord. For a page image for Monster.Ace Attorney, might I suggest a picture of innocents being sent to the gallows by Queen Ga'ran in the first case of Spirit of Justice? I'm guessing the character needs to be in the picture but if not that might make a nice image since it shows Ga'ran's dictatorship and the DCA.
Edited by Klavice on Sep 17th 2023 at 3:17:03 AM
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There's some more heinous ones (ranging from the mundicial, cannibalism inducing, child-soldier making Absolute Solver to the serial killer and cannibal Doll), but they all have higher resources (the Solver is an Eldritch Abomination, Doll is able to access some of the Solver's powers, and the others range from a super soldier faction to a interstellar company) in addition to having more screentime. The main character wanted to destroy the world, but she never really made any steps towards that goal and eventually forgot about it besides being briefly bigoted to humans.
Alice, however, is a normal Worker Drone who lives underground and appears in one episode, with her only resources being her lab partner and the Sentinels she somehow managed to trap but has no control over, which she utilizes to the fullest by butchering anyone who gets in and manages to outheinous some people with higher or similar resources (like James Elliot, Louisa Elliot, her assistant, and the Sentinels themselves given she's the one who released them to kill people) in addition to more equally resources villains like Tessa and Lizzy. It's not like she doesn't have a unique niche either, given she does torturous surgeries to at least some of her victims.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Sep 17th 2023 at 8:30:50 AM
I must have missed the previous EP on this guy.
for Simon Chord given the pile-up and killing several police officers info.
What is our stance on Game Within a Game candidates? May have a candidate from a tabletop game...that is within a Coming of Age Story visual novel.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Sep 17th 2023 at 9:23:26 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
to Chord
Abstain on Alice
Assuming game is given proper narative like our other Show Within a Show keepers, I’ll say it is fine for proposal.
Chord
Alice
I don't have anything to add but it feels wrong to not say farewell to the part of this site I've probably spent the most time on, so goodbye everybody.
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️

@Lightysnake Has Disenchantment been brought up yet?
Edited by Arawn999 on Sep 16th 2023 at 2:53:47 AM