Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
If AC 6 is on the table, I think I might try putting together an effortpost about V.II Snail when I have the time. He seems a pretty clear-cut candidate.
What's precedent ever done for us?I'm saying
for Lieutenant and Defensemaster Wangfa. The heinous standard is ridiculous now to the point where I don't know if anyone else can qualify. This franchise has hit almost every niche now in terms of horrible crimes.
I’m sorry, but it seems like you’re a little confused on the heinous standard, which I understand. This is only in the comic timeline (kinda), so the current competition is towards the comic and Telltale game villains. So the TV universe villains aren’t included. (Theodore Maddox, CRM, Jeremiah Otto, Jocelyn, Simon, Lance, Warden, Crazed Man ect all omitted)
And with that, I emphasis again Wangfa, along with Guo, has one of the most numbers of people suffering than any other villain in the comic universe, exploiting hundreds of thousands and willing to have them all die for themselves. With Wangfa himself a very large contributor for that.
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Sep 14th 2023 at 2:43:28 PM
Right. One Piece (2023). The first live action anine tv series not to suck. Nobody counts here at least. Expect two MB posts.
- Buggy destroys Orange town here. He also tortures Luffy Which is a worse crime than the original. Too bad it's never indicated anyone died. And Arlong the main villain of season one is way worse
- Kuro is a treacherous snake like the Manga. But the show adapts out the attempted massacre of Sugar island. Which without he's not quite bad enough
- Arlong is bad enough. He plans to massacre a village, murdered Nami's mother and enslaved her as a child to make his maps. And he lacks his overt Benevolent Boss stuff from the Manga. But instead he was give a backstory of his kind the Fishmen being oprrrsed and enslaved by humanity and he despises then for treating them so badly. Which I think is a bit too valid for him to keep. If he ever did anything to show he was a hypocrite like killed one of them I could see him keeping. But as is. No deal.
Thoughts?
Edited by miraculous on Sep 14th 2023 at 1:26:50 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I'm going to echo Lighty and say the influx of Walking Dead candidates are really starting to feel a bit hard to keep track of here. I understand this one's supposed to be a separate continuity, so I'm not downvoting, but I think I will abstain on it and probably any future TWD proposals.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.Yeah ultimately just gonna abstain on this TWD batch and likely any further ones in the near future. I had experience with the video games so was comfortable with voting on Jake but I'm just unsure on any furthers from this franchise.
Agreeing on that assessment of Netflix's One Piece, mir. Kuro is toned way down from the manga sadly, and even near-miss Don Krieg is nearly completely adapted out in a hilariously anticlimactic way
But with the show just getting renewed, guess eyes can be kept out for the show's take on Wapol.
- Black Tape: Lucas Fortune is a seemingly benevolent music agent, but is actually the wicked leader of a satanic cult bent on mass suffering. Lucas kidnapped and horribly tortured half a dozen women to death in ritual sacrifices to Lucifer and his "son" Jack King. Trying to turn Jack's widow Cindy into the final sacrifice, Lucas reveals his desire to bring Hell on Earth and stand above the rest of humanity at Lucifer's right hand. Even when the demonic Jack reveals that he himself is disgusted with Lucas's villainy, Lucas still tries to weasel his way into seeing his plan to fruition without Jack.
Edited by Ravok on Sep 14th 2023 at 2:45:35 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Wouldn't mind someone doing a more extensive EP on Netflix Arlong given his Adaptational Villainy, though the Freudian Excuse and lack of clear indicators of him having no care for his fellow fishmen would make him more likely to be a non-example.
But Buggy and Kuro are unquestionable no-gos for the reasons mentioned.
Edited by ANewMan on Sep 14th 2023 at 6:08:36 AM
Agreed that there's no qualifiers for the Netflix One Piece series. Arlong, the only one heinous enough, might not explicitly show care for his Fishman, but he doesn't full on invalidate his Freudian Excuse like Hody does in the manga. That said, there are potential MB candidates that me and mir have in mind.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 14th 2023 at 8:55:08 AM
Given that the live action one piece doesn't seem to adapt cover stories if their not close to the main story, and Enel's cover story is literally as far from the main story as could be...best to pay attention to the Kami in season 3.
Also the Adaptational Villainy going on with the villains, someone like Saint Charloss or Spandam could get jacked way up.
Edited by Malginel on Sep 14th 2023 at 6:36:21 AM
Wangfa.
Here's one I've been thinking about for a while.
What's the work?
The Little Mermaid (1992) is a cartoon series focusing on the adventures of Ariel and her friends prior to the events of the first film.
Who is he?
The Brain Sponge appears in the series finale, "A Little Evil." He's a pet of the Evil Manta, and is known for being a sadistic creature who sucks out the thoughts and imagination of his victims, leaving them unable to think. Due to his ravenous appetite the manta has to keep him chained up most of the time. When the manta becomes angered by his son's friendship with Ariel, he releases the sponge so he can drain Ariel's imagination, which the sponge is all too eager to do. They set off searching for Ariel, with the sponge constantly talking about how he can't wait to get her.
The sponge picks up Ariel's scent and tracks her, then attacks Ariel and the Manta's son, laughing and taunting them as he chases them down. He finds Ariel and corners her, but Ariel tricks him by suggesting that the Evil Manta's imagination would be even more appetizing. The sponge then attacks the manta instead, overpowering him, and starts to drain him, to the horror of Ariel and his son. Ariel decides to save the manta so she wraps a set of vines around the brain sponge and pulls him off, then ties him up before pushing a boulder onto him, crushing him into goo (in one of the only cases of a Disney princess outright killing a villain).
Heinous standard?
He's only in one episode but he's a very dark villain by the show's standards, and him draining the imagination from his victims is a fairly unique crime as it seems to be a Fate Worse than Death that leaves its victim as an empty shell, and he's eager to inflict this fate on anyone he comes across, and even betrays his master and nearly drains him with no hesitation. Also, Ariel says that she's heard of him and calls him the Manta's "famous brain sponge" which implies that he's well-known for having drained the imagination of numerous other Atlanticans in the past. He's also played very seriously and Ariel is clearly horrified by how evil he is, and while his voice actor gives an entertainingly hammy performance, it doesn't diminish his threat.
While he doesn't do as much as Ursula he lacks her resources as he doesn't have her magical powers, but I think he does as much as he can given his limited screentime. What makes me think he was written with this trope in mind is that the show often focuses on Ariel trying to redeem villains, including in this very episode with the Manta's son, but she makes an exception for the sponge as he's simply portrayed as a monster that can't be reasoned with, and Ariel killing him is portrayed as necessary to keep Atlantica safe from him.
Redeeming traits?
Nope. He makes it clear that he's a sadistic creature who enjoys terrorizing his victims and draining their imagination and he shows no remorse for this. The fact that the Evil Manta kept him restrained doesn't make him sympathetic because it's clear that it was the only way to keep him under control and keep him from attacking anyone he could get his hands on.
Verdict?
I'm leaning yes.
Edited by Javertshark13 on Sep 14th 2023 at 9:33:35 AM
Can't earnestly upvote. We've had villains proposed before who put people in a "sad" or "hollow" state by draining their emotions but I see it as akin to Harmless Freezing in that it can be completely undone. It sounds nebulous as to how many victims he's got and either way this is too g-rated of a crime for me to be comfortable with putting CM on.
Uhhhhh,
for the The Brain Sponge? It only attacks three characters and it just sucks out its victims thoughts/imagination. That doesn't seem like much, even with a lack of resources.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Sep 14th 2023 at 9:42:57 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

So I am familiar with a works heinous standard, and the only human villain that really competes with Telsin has more resources, and Telsin can still be argued to be worse. The only villian that's worse is Rayse/Odium who is a god, and despite Telsin's best efforts she never did become one of those. Speaking of which I want to nominate a quote from Rhythm of War about Rayse/Odium.
Alternatively