Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
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Remind me why he doesn't count in the original source material.
Frank Tenpenny, Roy, Liu, Suel, Ashiok, Goldfinger, Satan, Sauron and Saruman.
Pending:
- The Bill: Peter Williams
(Atlantis)
- Lucas Fortune
(Ravok)
- Maktu
(Scraggle)
- The Hellbound Heart: Frank Cotton
(Scraggle)
- "Duel of the Double Crossers!" & "Death Race to Oblivion!": Mongul
(Snowy)
- Roy
(Splonk)
I've been absent in the thread for a long time but I'd like to bring a recent case from Italian cinema.
The work
La California is a 2022 film directed by Cinzia Bomoll, taking place in the small fraction (the titular California, and for a period it was Truth in Television) of a town in Emilia-Romagna. It focuses on two twin sisters (Ester and Alice) and their family in the time span from the late Seventies to the Nineties. They are born and grow up in a mismatched family due to a Shotgun Wedding: their father is an anarchist punk while their mother is an old school Communist that has never fully recovered from post-partum depression; the only stable person in their life is their grandfather Abner, who is still tormented by the memories of World War II in which he fought as a partisan.The twins become polar opposites: Alice is outgoing and flirty, while Ester is prone to mood swings and self-harm. When the Chilean refugee "Allende" and his son Pablo reach the town, the latter gets into a Love Triangle with the protagonists, but what appears to be a simple dramedy is about to get a lot darker thanks to the local Big Bad.
The candidate
Gualtiero Malagoli is the resident Corrupt Corporate Executive with an oily, Pinochet-esque look (the similarity isn't casual, as you might expect). At first he appears to be just uncaring about the environment, due to the heavy pollution caused by his local ceramics factory, and he even seems to grieve for his wife and father-in-law's death in a car accident — which, on a side note, made him the only owner of the factory.
Malagoli shows a creepy interest in the twins that starts when they are only high-schoolers and he's clearly older, although they constantly tell him off. One day, after a panicking Ester has found out to be pregnant, she overhears Malagoli talk angrily with his own henchman Bruscolo about a huge cocaine deal. During the rant, Malagoli lets it slip that he had Bruscolo sabotage his wife's car and cause the alleged accident, and shortly after he discovers Ester who was hiding in a nearby photo booth. After threatening the girl, he seemingly calms down and offers her enough money to start a new life somewhere else, far from the Small Town Boredom, as long as she spends one night with him and keeps the secret about what she's heard.
Ester has no choice but to accept, but before going she tells Alice about the offer. To protect her sister, Alice locks her up and dyes her own hair black to look exactly like her (they are natural blondes), and goes to the appointment pretending to be Ester, thinking she can take the money from Malagoli and flee with her sister.
However, once they meet in the intended place, Malagoli starts assaulting Alice in a drug-fueled frenzy, revealing that he has done so to other women before and it's the only way for him to get aroused. As Alice tries to fight back, Bruscolo tells Malagoli to stop only to have his boss gun him down in a moment of rage. Malagoli then strangles Alice to death and, thinking he's killed Ester, clumsily sets the scene up to make it look like a suicide.
What he doesn't know is that Ester (believed by almost everyone to be Alice at this point) knows what happened and is planning her revenge. Following Alice's funeral, Allende gives an unwitting Malagoli a ride back home after the latter's car has "accidentelly" broken down. During the ride, Abner knocks Malagoli out with chloroform, and they take him tied up to a secluded shed, where Ester stabs him and leaves him at a sow's mercy.

Here's a dual EP that I can finally scratch off by bucket list.
What’s the Work?
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers & The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King are two licensed games based on the movies and published by EA.
The two games tell very abridged versions of Peter Jackson's trilogy (hell, Fellowship was condensed into the first third of Two Towers), combining scenes from the movie with new CG cutscenes and levels that expand upon different aspects of the story.
But considering how the stories are still largely the same, it's no guess as to who I will be proposing.
Who are They?
The Dark Lord Sauron and Saruman are the two biggest threats of the games, both posing a great threat to Middle-earth.
What have they done?
Sauron, seeking power over Middle-earth, secretly forged his own Ring many, many years ago, a Master Ring, putting every awful thing about him such as his cruelty, malice, and willingness to dominate all life inside of it. Many villages and people fell to the Ring's power, leading to a battle in Mordor that saw Sauron himself slaugther many warriors. But upon being slain by Isildor, son of the King, the Ring corrupted Isildor into not tossing it inside Mount Doom.
Sauron's legacy would continue for many years, with his army of Orcs searching for the Ring, an army that was bred solely for the sake of destroying the world of men. Most of the games showcase the Orcs' destruction as many lives are claimed and many cities are threatened in an effort to return Sauron to power. Sauron even uses his Eye to give the order to attack Gondor, "the last free kingdom of Men."
Saruman, meanwhile, serves as Sauron's commander, ordering his own army of Orcs, the Uruk-hai, to kill all in their path, which leads to the death of Boromir and the capturing of Merry and Pippin in an attempt to stop the Fellowship from destroying the Ring. Saurman orders an invasion of Rohan, having his army wipe out villages in his quest to claim the ring and bring about Sauron’s rule. Many Orcs are seen destroying homes and setting fire to everything, even planting explosive barrels everywhere to cause more destruction. Saruman later orders his army to attack Helm's Deep, even giving orders to "Leave none alive!"
As for their fates? Saurman's death is similar to the Theatrical Cut of Two Towers (as in it's only implied that he died, cause he's never seen again) while Frodo's able to drop the Ring into Mount Doom (after fighting the final boss: Gollum!) and stop Sauron's reign of terror.
Redeeming Qualities?
None for the both of 'em.
Heinousness?
Sauron's the Big Bad of the games so that's an easy pass. Now like the movie, he's never given any dialogue, but his personality is given in detail by others, from Galadriel's opening narration, to Gandalf proclaiming Sauron's fear over Aragon being close to stopping him, and his ego for believing that the Ringbearer Frodo will fail. And once again, the Mouth of Sauron (now a boss fight) taunts the Fellowship of Frodo's supposed death and the suffering the Halflings faced, another display of Sauron's cruelty.
And Saruman, despite his limited screen presence compared to the films, makes up for it with his attacks on Rohan and Helm's Deep, with the battle of Rohan coming close to claiming the lives of many men, women, and children, and his command of not leaving anybody alive at the battle of Helm's Deep shows how driven he is in his pursuit of power and vanity.
Conclusion
Two simple keeps
It's Spooky Month!