Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Also, two of my other keepers from ICE had an onscreen body count of 1 and 3. The "1" body count was also a rapist who kidnapped men, forced them to have sex with her and poisoned multiple babies and the "3" killer was shown to be amidst a murder spree and his blade was soaked, and also tore a court official's face off and blinded his manservants. Liu Yu is mentioned to have made a lifestyle out of murder and massacred streets daily, so much that he got depressed when he didn't killed someone in a day.
Edited by HighfalutinQuelea on Sep 12th 2023 at 10:07:13 AM
to Liu Yu
Writeup time. I decided to put the Lady last since she is only in one story and comes after other two.
- Little Nightmares fanfics Six’s Shield
& Mono’s past
:
- The Eye is an eldritch entity responsible for setting being the Crapsack World. It is a sadistic and controlling being who transforms countless humans across the world into monsters while having human cults sacrifice people, including the cultists' own children, to it. Souls of humans who worship it or are killed by its servants are used as a fuel for the Eye to expand its influence, before being forever subjected to their worst fears for its amusement. When Six mother Ellie begs the Eye to spare her daughter from being sacrificed, it makes her part of the Signal Tower, which it uses to reduce inhabitants of the Pale City into its mindless servant. Desiring to make Mono the new host of the Signal Tower, the Eye has the Thin Man kidnap Six and subjects her to illusions of Mone breaking her music box for aeons to turn her against him. After Six helps it capture Mono, the Eye lets her go so her hunger would lead her into the Maw, planning to make her the Maw’s next host.
- The Hunter is a Serial Killer living in the woods outside of the Pale City. Hunter uses his traps to kill dozens of people, be they children or adults, before either leaving their bodies to rot or using taxidermy to turn them into trophies. He captures Six and, after preventing her escape, throws her into a cage in the basement. The Hunter spends weeks keeping her prisoner, only occasionally throwing her rotten food and using his gun to make it clear he can kill her at any time. When Six escapes again with Mono’s help, the Hunter attempts to kill them both.
- Into the Maw: The Lady is the cruel current host of the Maw, a giant underwater structure the Eye created to get rid of the bodies whose souls it absorbed by having them fed to the Maw’s guests. The Lady also runs a side business of having countless kids kidnapped and held prisoner in the Maw before butchering them for the guests. She is also horribly abusive to her daughter Raine, treating her as part of her collection of porcelain dolls and punishing her for disobedience by having her locked into a closet until she passes out from hunger. When Ferryman bring her Six thinking she is a runaway Raine, the Lady punishes her the same way she did her daughter, before sending the girl to await butchering with the other children after realising Six isn’t her daughter, angry at being “tricked” by her.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Sep 12th 2023 at 1:48:41 AM
to Tenpenny, but just want to point something out: Tenpenny didn't kill Hernandez, Pulaski killed him. But I guess Tenpenny thought he had killed Hernandez by hitting him with a shovel, as Pulaski and CJ did think he was dead while digging the tomb before Hernandez woke up and sacrificed himself to save CJ from Pulaski, who shot him dead.
Yeah technically speaking Pulaski finishes him off, but Tenpenny bashes Hernandez's head and leaves Pulaski to "clean up" and bury the body, so I just simplified it for expediency's sake by saying that Tenpenny killed him, lol.
Yes to Liu Yu
Edited by Ravok on Sep 12th 2023 at 2:01:43 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Tenpenny. I knew that guy had CM potential, but with Avon Hertz literally blowing them all out in comparison, they needed to be uniquely despicable in order to qualify, and somehow he did.
Liu.
Actually, there is one thing I've been wondering - any think Catalina from both III and San Andreas might count by these standards ?
I recall her being a nasty customer in San Andreas — Think a Spear Counterpart to Trevor Phillips, sans any redeeming qualities — and in III, she pushes a drug called SPANK onto Liberty City, which is shown to have near zombifying effects, with her using multiple junkies as suicide bombers.
Though there may still be the matter of her being played almost for dark comedy in San Andreas, and her takeover attempt on Liberty City might still be overshadowed by Tenpenny's operations spanning across a whole state.
Edited by Beast on Sep 12th 2023 at 3:28:47 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Okay Wet's allowed me to do Fernsley's write up so here it is:
- "The Shadow Of The Scaffold": Ethel Fernsley, despite seemingly a harmless, grieving old woman, is truthfully a sociopathic attention seeker with one of the highest body counts of any killer. Faking being wheelchair bound solely to ensure she was constantly the centre of attention and could control others, for years Ethel murdered any of her farm's seasonal labourers who saw too much or threatened her facade—suffocating them by blocking the flue tube in the barn where they sleep and then feeding their bodies to her pigs. Working her daughter-in-law Violet like a slave, Ethel encouraged her vicious son Ivan's abuse of Violet—including him beating her into a miscarriage— and murdered the kind-hearted Piotr for trying to rescue Violet. Following her son Wilfred, who had discovered her method of murder, Ethel ran him over with the farm truck crushing him to death. Finally caught, Ethel trapped Father Brown and Sid inside the barn to be devoured alive by the pigs.
Thoughts?
Long awaited yes to tenpenny
And now for the writeup:
Solar Opposites: Sister Sisto murdered the previous leader of the Bowinian church to bring herself to power, revealing Cherie’s child to the residents of the wall, Sisto has her child branded to make her a false symbol to the church. During the events of season 4, Sisto is revealed to have turned the church into a cult, having anyone who enters said wall executed if they do not accept Jesse as their god, with their heads being displayed on a wall as a warning. When one of the residents discover the temperature decreasing at an alarming rate, Sisto reveals that she had been personally lowering it before having said resident executed, after Cherie and Montez manage to escape, Sisto sends her soldiers after them of which many of them are killed by the traps left for them, after she discovers that they had already escaped, she abandons her soldiers and leaves them to freeze to death, revealing to nova that she never believed in Jesse to begin with and was lying to her the whole time about reviving her husband, breaking Nova in the process before attempting to stab her to death.
Let me know if it’s too long or if I need to change something.
Edited by Mediawatcher on Sep 12th 2023 at 9:08:34 AM
Yu
A bit late, but here's my discussion on DC/RWBY: I think there's no keepers?
The plot follows Team RWBY getting isekai'd to the DC Universe. Remnant has begun merging with DC, so Grimm are appearing, people are developing Semblances they can't control, and all the technology is failing due to becoming reliant on Dust.
The masterminds behind it all are Lex Luthor and Salem, who found each other and struck a deal to merge their two worlds together. Lex is far from CM; he truly believes that by giving everyone in the world powers and giving them a threat (Grimm) to fight, they won't become reliant on superheroes, but when Team RWBY show what widespread damage it causes, he shows remorse. Not enough to redeem, but surrenders as soon as he's in custody and later apologizes to Team RWBY for not having the ability to send them home. Salem is less than noble, but I make no joke when I say she appears for one panel of the entire miniseries. She's technically the Big Bad, but has so little agency in what is going on that I can't in good faith attribute all of the disaster and chaos to her.
That said, there is a weird case. In this continuity, the Grimm are lorded over not just by Salem, but by the "King of Grimm", a Nuckelavee. This is where the Joker comes in. The Semblance he gains is an affinity with Grimm, which he uses to willingly fuse with the Nuckelavee to become "The Boogeyman", and from that moment on becomes the one controlling (or at least sending) the Grimm across the world, even leading to Batman being possessed by a Chill to become evil. When Ruby finds out that fear drives the Grimm out of the host, she tricks Evil!Batman and The Boogeyman into fighting each other and then stepping between them as they clash, resulting in both her and Batman being impaled. Batman, fearing he has been responsible for the loss of a life, is freed from the Chill, but most interestingly the Joker inadvertently purges the Nuckelavee because he is afraid that he has killed, as Wonder Woman puts it, "the one that mattered most to him", i.e. Batman. She even goes on to state that maybe the Joker "has a heart after all".
So maybe the Joker has something worth discussing? His obsession with Batman has always been a part of his character, but going so far as to be legitimately afraid that he's killed him and slink into a depression after purging the Nuckelavee? I really don't know, leaning towards no keepers though.
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here

Surprising
to Tenpenny and
to Liu.