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Proposal - Creation of a DUB tab

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Nagrada Since: Oct, 2020
#1: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:38:23 AM

Self-explanatory.

There are many tropes that are not applicable to the media itself, but to the derived works that stem from it. And such is the case of dubbing. None of the creators intended any of the possible tropes derived from voice-acting or translation (relationship voice actor, woolseyisms), and as such should not, in my humble opinion, be in the trivia section for said work.

All tropes related to voice acting are only tangentially related to the work itself, and as such should be under their own category.

Let the flames begin.

Orbiting Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#2: Jan 9th 2023 at 12:00:29 PM

If it's an offical dub, then everything in the translation is intended and offical.

Nagrada Since: Oct, 2020
#3: Jan 9th 2023 at 12:13:58 PM

Not by the original authors, no. For example, I don't think anybody involved in the production of Top Gun Maverick ever considered changing a line because "it might be difficult to translate to Urdu". Translation and Dubbing are processes that are independent of and posterior to the creation of any original work. Simply put, without the original, there can be no dubbing.

Orbiting Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#4: Jan 9th 2023 at 12:29:16 PM

I'm saying that it's pointless to separate the creators of the original work and the creators of the dub: they're all considered offical creators, and the products they release are considered equally offical for this site's purposes.

Nagrada Since: Oct, 2020
#5: Jan 9th 2023 at 12:45:51 PM

That's my point: they shouldn't. Fanfics have their own tab, why not dubs?

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#6: Jan 9th 2023 at 1:39:46 PM

Because a dub is part of an official release? Like, I get you fell through a hole from the late 90s anime fandom, but there is no good reason to cleanly seperate dubs as if they're a completely different product

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Nagrada Since: Oct, 2020
#7: Jan 9th 2023 at 2:12:48 PM

Again, you are conflagrating "official release" with "original piece of work". Your assumption that "I fell through a hole" is quite funny, honestly. Understandable, but mistaken. Let's take The Simpsons, or Dragon Ball, or literally any work to ever be translated, ever. Their dubbing into different languages has created absolutely different works, each of them different from the original version, each with tropes and plot holes that exist merely because of the fact that the script-writers didn't translate their work into other languages (the eternal flame war between European and Latin American Spanish dubs). Should the trivia page be PLAGUED by these tidbits of information that are absolutely irrelevant to most viewers (niches within niches within niches)? Or should they be under their own tab for those interested in voice acting? Go ahead and tell me how the previous rhetorical question is a fallacy.

Orbiting Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#8: Jan 9th 2023 at 2:13:36 PM

[up][up][up] Because dubs are offical and fanfics aren't.

Edited by Orbiting on Jan 9th 2023 at 5:13:53 AM

Nagrada Since: Oct, 2020
#9: Jan 9th 2023 at 2:18:43 PM

Repeating your statement is not, in no way, a rebuttal of my argument.

Edited by Nagrada on Jan 9th 2023 at 2:19:43 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#10: Jan 9th 2023 at 2:43:31 PM

Well, repeating that dubs are "entirely different works" is in no way a rebuttal of ours

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Nagrada Since: Oct, 2020
#11: Jan 9th 2023 at 3:01:08 PM

>No u

I have provided numerous reasons as to why I consider dubs to be adjacent but not essential to any work. So far you are covering your ears, running in circles saying "it's official nanana".

Edited by Nagrada on Jan 9th 2023 at 3:02:18 AM

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It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#12: Jan 9th 2023 at 3:03:23 PM

Because according to site rules, yes, dubs are official and don't count as different works. You're not going to change the sitewide stance, especially not if you're the only one who disagrees with it.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Nagrada Since: Oct, 2020
#13: Jan 9th 2023 at 3:11:07 PM

Following the same logic, nothing would ever change, ever. No new rules made, no old rules revised. Also, the fact that no one in this thread agrees with me (so far) is only indicative of the four posters' opinion, not site-wide. And it doesn't mean I'm wrong, either (and yes, I am fully aware that it doesn't make me right. There is life beyond binary logic).

Let's debate this, dammit.

Edit: At some point the "tearjerker" tab was excised from the YMMV tab, right?

Edited by Nagrada on Jan 9th 2023 at 3:13:06 AM

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#14: Jan 9th 2023 at 3:16:49 PM

I don't see any reason to change it either ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#15: Jan 9th 2023 at 3:19:05 PM

[up][up] First off, what you're asking for is a massive change. Not a rule change or something, but something that would take years of work to properly implement, especially since troping the most recent English dub of a work is our modus operandi. It's not as simple as "debate it", you're massively underestimating just how ingrained the use of dubs are on this site, and that's reason enough to not entertain this idea.

Second, what are you even talking about with Tear Jerker? Yes, it's still YMMV? It's still often found on YMMV pages? You might see subpages for it, but that's usually because it just has a lot of examples?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Nagrada Since: Oct, 2020
#16: Jan 9th 2023 at 3:27:17 PM

[Your usage of question marks to signify ascending intonation is confusing, and very American]

>Years to implement

Like the re-writes and moderation on "Absolute Monster"? Like literally any change to this site?

>Dubbing is so ingrained

Precisely, that's why I am proposing this. There are some tropes exclusive to dubbing, why not make it its own contained area, without it polluting other pages? If there are voice-acting tropes absolutely different from acting, why not its own category? You wouldn't host two different sports in the same venue at the same time just because they happen to play on the same surface.

Also, I am referring to voice acting and dubs in works that require one due to exportation, not exclusively animation.

Edited by Nagrada on Jan 9th 2023 at 3:27:33 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#17: Jan 9th 2023 at 3:40:23 PM

"Absolute Monster" isn't a thing. Do you mean Complete Monster?

And again, you're comparing the moderation of a single trope to something that would take an entire sitewide effort, changing hundreds of pages, changing the very way we trope things.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#18: Jan 9th 2023 at 4:07:36 PM

Second, what are you even talking about with Tear Jerker? Yes, it's still YMMV? It's still often found on YMMV pages? You might see subpages for it, but that's usually because it just has a lot of examples?

If some particular bit of trivia is indeed consistently dwarfing the rest of the examples on multiple pages, then I could see creating a new tab for it. But is that the case here?

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#19: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:35:15 PM

This isn't happening for all of the aforementioned reasons.

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