To that the typical answers are
- Who will take responsibility for moderating such server? None of the mods want to give it their worktime.
- Most of the people see no advantages of Discord over the forum.
That, and some here don't use Discord—I have an account I created solely because a channel I liked announced they were ending there. Other than that, I don't really use Discord.
I dunno, I like to think of myself as one of the rare breeds of zoomer who actually knows what IRC is, and I wouldn't mind an IRC server for TV Tropes.
In 2023.
But I agree with the majority that a Discord server would be too hard to moderate. I don't know if the moderators themselves have Discord accounts (though I'd presume so), but in any case, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I left discord modding to mod here so I definitely can't do both at once.
Anyways enough discord talk as it's off topic. As for the numbering suggestion, I didn't think about it since the mod code rules turned out to be smaller than I expected. But sure I can make it a numbered list if people find that to be easier.
Macron's notesCan I make what I hope is a constructive suggestion. This is more about us — the users — than the mods, but I think it might help in the future if another situation like this ever arises.
As many different people tried to point out along the way, the thread became very hostile, unstructured, messy, and extremely unpleasant to wade through. It put me off from making a post for a very long time, and continued to put me off from making too many posts at all. It's great that a constructive way forward has come out of it all, but I do think we might use that as an example of how not to do it in future. My thought is this:
The key problems with the way it happened was:
- Moderators badly wording themselves, causing backlash from users.
- Users badly wording themselves, causing backlash from some mods and some users (including mini-mod incidents).
- Issues being missed or not acknowledged or being poorly (even problematically) addressed when acknowledged, all causing heightened tension, frustration and confusion from both mods and users alike.
So, I feel the single biggest problem at work here is coherency of message, ensuring all points have been aired, acknowledged and then properly addressed, and a need do this without becoming repetitive and frustrated, mini-modding each other, etc., all of which damages communication and delays the ability to reach a conclusion.
If this ever happens again, would it be worth creating a sandbox to run alongside the discussion, where the users place a bullet point summary of the issue(s) they need addressed (and if more detail is needed, they can link back to a post in the moderator thread, detailing the issues they need see resolved). If multiple people have raised the same issue, then several links could be provided in the bullet point to show that there's widespread support behind that issue.
When we've captured what everyone is saying, we can make sure that's cleaned up and presentable (ie, readable, no word cruft, no ambiguity). This would give us a checklist for the mods, allowing the mods to see what all the issues are, and allowing us to see what the mods have satisfactorily addressed (with a link to the relevant post, so it doesn't get lost), what needs further work, and what hasn't been addressed at all.
This is just a bit of brainstorming right now, so it doesn't have to be exactly like this. But I think if we can frame our feedback to the mods in a structured way, we can be very clear and firm about exactly what we need from the mods, what they've handled and what's still outstanding; it gives all of us — mods and users, alike — an easier way of keeping track of things in a situation that involves fast-moving, emotionally-charged posting.
tl;dr — I think producing a structured method for dealing with problematic mod behaviour could include a structured approach to any debate this would create on the moderator thread.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 18th 2023 at 8:52:44 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.To make the mod response for the revised mod post + mod conduct rules, one of the other made a checklist of every thing that was/wasn't addressed so a sandbox might not be a bad idea.
I think this might belong in the moderation discussion thread since I don't think it has much to do with bad mod behavior (by itself).
Edited by MacronNotes on Jan 17th 2023 at 3:13:31 PM
Macron's notes

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup