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Requesting 2nd/3rd/etc opinions on Sandboxed fanfic Works page

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KIMJONGUNBABIES Since: Oct, 2017
#1: Dec 31st 2022 at 1:58:10 AM

I would like some outside perspectives on Quietus, a Works page I created back in 2020, if anyone is willing and able to help.

Long story short, I ended up nearly causing an editing war with a handful of other Tropers who disagreed vehemently with my tone and choice of tropes for Quietus, a Naruto fanfic. Having a reputation for abysmal teamwork/communication skills, and genuinely disliking the fanfic for its handling of gender and class, I abandoned the page out of fears I would only incite further strife if I kept editing. It was not until now that I finally managed to review the discussion page, and I'm feeling pretty ambivalent about the response offered there.

I'm particularly concerned about the following:

-The other editor argued I was treating Quietus as "a professionally edited and published piece of fiction" and being unfair to its fans with my critical tone and focus on potentially disturbing tropes.

-I'm also apparently misusing Trivia/YMMV tropes to paint the readership writ large as less supportive than the other editor says it is.

In any case, I would appreciate it if folks could offer some opinions on the above. I won't resume edits due to lack of time and energy, but I also want to know whether I violated site policy/ies (I probably did) and how.

For reference, the full list of criticisms is on the discussion page. I will only say in my meager defense that I had in fact spent hours researching each trope as I wrote examples.

Thank you, and sorry to bother you all.

Edited by KIMJONGUNBABIES on Dec 31st 2022 at 2:00:48 AM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#2: Dec 31st 2022 at 1:14:55 PM

1. Pages on tvtropes have one purpose, to describe the work's content as-is. If people have problems with the tropes and not example formatting, they should direct it to the fic itself on the site it's published at.

2. Administrivia.There Is No Such Thing As Notability. I don't see how the tone or how it was published is relevant to us. As long as it's factually published and not a draft. The site doesn't differentiate bewteen a high-budget movie and a 20 page cartoon shipping story as long as it has plot of some kind.

3. Administrivia.Auto Erotic Troping. The author of the foc cannot add YMMV, or undisclosed Trivia. These are to be added by an independant reader if they want to. If you're not the writer, YMMV are free to add.

4. Administrivia.The Content Policy. We are not a website for kids, we describe quite adult works as well. If it doesn't have descriptions of underage porn or is mostly porn, all those trigger warnings are unnecessary. Again, describe the fic as-is. And if it has either of the two, then it'd be a question if it or the censored version allowed to be shared at all.

5. Administrivia.Example Indentation In Trope Lists. One example of a trope, one "* Trope: Example". More than one example = "* Trope: ** Example 1 ** Example 2". Do not leave a singular "**" paragraph, they're not for comments.

6. Personal from me, but as far as I understand, in this fic Naruto characters and greek mythology characters are the same. It doesn't need naming conventions unless Sasuke and Hades appear independantly and I've missed that. Use the names the fic uses.

Edited by Amonimus on Dec 31st 2022 at 12:19:06 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
KIMJONGUNBABIES Since: Oct, 2017
#3: Jan 6th 2023 at 11:37:13 PM

Thanks for the response. I should clarify that I'm not the author of Quietus or affiliated with them in any way.

Anyway, my thoughts:

1. Not sure what you mean by "direct[ing] it to the fic itself". By "it", do you mean criticisms of the content?

I should also disclose that I was at least partly inspired by the works pages for fanfics like legolas by laura, My Inner Life, and The Little Pony Legend. The main pages for the first two are openly critical of the fanfics in question, while the YMMV page for the third has or at least had a fairly extensive list of negative reader reactions from places like Tumblr.

2. Context left out in my first post due to length, but the Troper I mentioned was a big fan of the fanfic, hence their decrying the tone I'd established for the page. They may have also been under the impression that I was tearing into Quietus because it was "only" a fanfic, and a work in progress to boot.

3. Again, I am not the author.

In any case, I had originally added some Trivia tropes related to publicly available or observable info (author's name change, interruptions in updates), but the other editors of the page scrubbed them on the grounds that I'd derived such info from the author's personal Tumblr, not a site specifically promoting Quietus. I'd seen a similar level of detail on other works pages while browsing and thought I wasn't breaking any rules with my documentation.

4. Understood, and apologies for the warnings. I generally prefer to use content warnings, so I had thoughtlessly skipped out on reviewing site policies on that front.

The author has mentioned on FF.N that the censored version is the main one, while the uncensored copy on AO3 simply has the explicit but often plot-related scenes that FF.N (supposedly) doesn't allow.

5. I believe the other editors were responsible for the formatting errors you mentioned. When I was actively constructing the page, I did my best to follow site formatting as closely as possible and review the style guide frequently. I can't say the same for the other editors, who may have been new to Troper formatting.

As to why I didn't correct the mistakes, I didn't want to be accused by the others of censoring their edits, given my blatant disdain for their favorite fanfic.

6. The author of Quietus refers to the characters by both their canon names and the Greek deity names assigned to them. There are even scenes where the characters go from using one name to another in conversation (e.g., canon to Greek). I don't intend to remove the explanation on names as the fanfic regularly makes it clear in-universe that the characters are supposed to be known by both sets of names.

Side note:

I'm not going to add content to the works page, as I am far too biased against the story to describe it as it is and would like to avoid running afoul of editing policies again.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#4: Jan 6th 2023 at 11:58:24 PM

To elaborate, you've mentioned that people may not like the fic. I'd like to note that this sentiment can't carry over to tvtropes, we're very protective of the writing style on articles. In case some try to edit the page to complain or use poor formatting, you can ask others on the site for feedback, and the other editors can be "politely" asked to follow writing guidelines.

If you're not involved in productions, then you have no restrictions in documenting the fic or outside-the-work notes. It was wrong to me to assume, but had to make sure just in case to remind about it.

Would also append, Administrivia.Zero Context Example: You can't have things like "* Masquerade Ball." with no explanation, it needs a briefing on the situation this trope occurs at.

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 7th 2023 at 11:00:34 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#5: Jan 7th 2023 at 2:43:24 AM

Considering the OP said they disliked the fanfic, I thought it was the person they were arguing with that Amonimus was implying was the fic's creator...

KIMJONGUNBABIES Since: Oct, 2017
#6: Jan 10th 2023 at 11:26:10 PM

@Amonimus:

Writing tone: Yeah, that tracks with the site's general vibe. I'll admit I started the page to document the less savory aspects of Quietus, particularly its romanticized abuse and sexist undertones, but I also made a bona fide effort to include tropes that I could elaborate on without passing judgment. Guess I'm just too biased against the fic if the other editors had to tone down my examples.

I will say, though, that most readers who do share their opinions tend to praise Quietus effusively while avoiding even mild critiques. If any one of them had started the works page rather than me, they likely would've had the same problems with bias that I do, only they'd be too complimentary instead.

Trivia/YMMV: Thanks for clarifying, much appreciated. But I'm going to have to accede to the other editors on this one, since the author of Quietus is known to be intensely private. (I also have severe issues IRL with respecting others' boundaries, which doesn't help my case.)

ZCE: I had originally meant to fill in all the ZCEs with proper examples and make the page as complete as possible, but I don't have the time or energy to search on my own for tropeable material when Quietus has 111 chapters that often run past 20k words, and the other editors didn't care that much about TV Tropes to begin with.

@Morgan Wick:

Eh, valid. I didn't refer to the other users by name out of fears that it would sound vindictive, what with all my grousing. They're listed in the edit history for Quietus, though.

Thanks again to all the folks who replied.

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