Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
Cut Dark Danny.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Cut Dark Danny
Not the Eye
Cut Dark Danny
Showtime!
Cut DD
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Yup, cut!
Zap Dark Danny.
Goku Black
Cut Danny
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Woagh
Chop Dark Danny (Or "Phantom" as he's called here).
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Cut Dark Danny. That said, sounds like he'd now be heinous enough to be a CM again if it weren't for the moral agency issues.
Edit: Oh, saw the post about him on the CM thread stating how he now has agency, but gets redeeming qualities. NVM
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 8:30:15 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cut Double D
"No running in the halls!"
Cut Dark Danny
The Emperor of Evil!
Cut Dark Danny
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Cut Dark Danny. This would reduce the amount of MBs to a total of 8 entries, keep in mind.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Cut Dark Danny.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
I’m not sure where to bring this because my issue is with the Write a Magnificent Bastard page instead of a character but I thought this would be the best place
The page lists Satou Matsuzaka from Happy Sugar Life as one of “The Greats” on the “Particular Examples” section and while I do agree she is a Magnificent Bastard I don’t think she’s a “Great” for a few reasons (they all kind of relate to each other though)
First she’s a major Base Breaking Character for her more ruthless actions (most notably her killing Shouko) with many readers finding her Unintentionally Unsympathetic as a result, and while no character can be universally liked (and protagonists are very often Base Breaking Characters) the top of the folder says that “Only put a character here if they are more or less universally agreed upon” since she’s the manga’s biggest Base Breaking Character it seems contradictory to the page to put her in the folder, which brings me to my next point
Second the page lists Obito Uchiha from Naruto as a “Treat With Caution” he has a similar motive to Satou, both are motivated by love (Obito’s motivated by the death of his childhood Love Interest and Satou’s motivated to protect her “Happy Sugar Life” [hey that’s the title of the work] with Shio) and many viewers find him Unintentionally Unsympathetic for his more ruthless actions causing him to be a Base Breaking Character within the fandom. Sound familiar? It seems odd that Satou’s a “Great” while Obito’s a “Treat With Caution” when they both come off as unintentionally unsympathetic base breaking characters, and that brings us to my last point
Finally she’s only an Anti Villain because everyone else in the Manga is even worse. If the setting was full of Anti Villains she would probably be seen as the “darker shade” in the “a lighter shade of grey” trope at best and a straight up villain at worst. Going back to the Obito point if he was in the Crapsack World she was he would be seen as a lot easier to root for.
In conclusion I think she should be cut from “The Greats” folder, maybe I’m reading too deeply into things but I just don’t want people to have bad advice on how to write a Magnificent Bastard (she can remain listed as an MB but not in “the greats” folder)
In honor of Akira Toriyama
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You can go remove it if you want, I doubt this thread is the best place to look for advice with a writing guide. My idea when I put that in was just "how to find inspiration for a particularly vicious MB". Does Bondrewd sound like a good idea instead?
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 4th 2023 at 10:09:09 PM
Lies and Violence!
Cut Dark Danny.
I did a few MCU edits a while back, and I got two more to put forward; Loki and Nebula's entries feel a little barebones for such major characters in the franchise, so I tried to expand on their cleverness where I could.
- Loki Odinson successfully brings the Frost Giants into Asgard to trick his brother Thor into attacking Jotunheim. After having Thor exiled and taking over Asgard during Odin's sleep, Loki attempts to destroy Jotunheim after betraying the giants, killing his birth father Laufey, all to win Odin's approval. After a brutal attack on Earth, a captive Loki assists Thor against the Dark Elves, faking a betrayal of him and then his own death to take Asgard over. After his failures, Loki finally grows enough to save the Asgardians and fight alongside Thor to destroy their monstrous sister, before being accosted by the Mad Titan Thanos. Loki attempts a ruse to trick and kill Thanos, his final words being to declare himself as "Odinson" and defiantly inform Thanos he will never win.
- Nebula, one of the Children of Thanos, spent her life in the shadow of the sister she hated and loved, Gamora. Training with Gamora and painfully "upgraded" with every fight she lost, Nebula later takes a chance to betray her father and assist Ronan the Accuser in his attempted coup before escaping after nearly killing Gamora. Later defeating and reconciling with her sister, Nebula manages to escape Thanos's clutches and nearly brings her father to his knees. Later bonding with Tony Stark and helping the Avengers, Nebula impersonates her past self to trick Thanos, helping to secure the future and existence even in the face of annihilation.
- Loki Odinson, the God of Mischief and adoptive brother of Thor, proves to be one of the trickiest and most beloved characters in the entire MCU. In his introductory appearance, Loki successfully brings Frost Giants into Asgard to trick his brother into attacking Jotunheim. After Thor is subsequently exiled and Loki learns the truth of his parentage to the Jotunn king Laufey, the trickster god proceeds to take over Asgard during Odin's sleep and goads his birth father into attacking, betraying him to destroy Jotunheim and win Odin's approval before using illusions to engage in a battle with Thor. After a brutal yet disastrous attack on Earth, a captive Loki assists Thor against the Dark Elves, faking a betrayal to have Malekith remove the poisonous Aether from Jane Foster, before faking his own death in the process of slaying Kurse in order to secretly overthrow Odin and take over Asgard in his guise. After his failures, Loki finally grows enough to save the Asgardians and fight alongside Thor to destroy their monstrous sister, before being accosted by the Mad Titan Thanos. Loki attempts a ruse to trick and kill Thanos, his final words even in defeat being to declare himself as "Odinson" and defiantly inform Thanos he will never win.
- Nebula, one of the Children of Thanos, spent her life in the shadow of the sister she hated and loved, Gamora. Training with Gamora and painfully "upgraded" with every fight she lost, Nebula later takes the chance to betray her hated father and assist Ronan the Accuser in his coup, nearly killing her sister before escaping the chaos. Upon being captured by the Guardians, Nebula uses the encroaching threat of the Ravagers to secure her release, only to instead subdue Yondu and Rocket so she can pursue her sister. However, after finally defeating Gamora, Nebula reconciles with her and helps defeat the insane Ego before setting out to confront her father. Though captured after nearly killing him, Nebula escapes Thanos's clutches and orchestrates a trap for him on his home world, nearly bringing him to his knees. Later aiding the Avengers in undoing Thanos' decimation of the universe, getting captured by a past incarnation of her father in the process, Nebula convinces the variant of her sister to turn on Thanos and kills her own alternate self to save existence. With the future secured, Nebula participates in one last mission to defeat the vile High Evolutionary before retiring to lead the people of Knowhere, bringing about the happiness and joy long denied in her upbringing at last.
I'm going to remove Satou— she's a Base-Breaking Character and an extremely unconventional MB. I don't think having her as one of The Greats is providing especially good advice, especially since Obito himself is listed under Treat With Caution (Which I agree with) and putting up Satou sends mixed messages.
In addition, I don't really approve of trying to put up Bondrewd either. We don't need a "particularly brutal" category in The Greats, and there was quite a bit of effort that went into keeping those two sections clean and removing redundancies during the earlier days of the thread. Adding Bondrewd wouldn't help.
Additionally, I think Johan Liebert and Ainz can go from "Treat With Caution." Ainz has bigger issues than just being overpowered that keep him from being an MB, and Johan overlaps with characters like the Joker. Just being a near-MB does not necessarily mean the character has to be listed.
Agreed.
x3 Feels horrible to see all of them undone in a sort of way like someone got multiple CM/MB candidate nominations mass downvoted in a row.
Anyways, cut Danny.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 5th 2023 at 12:35:50 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Ok great, not sure who Bondrewd is
Lies and Violence!
Any thoughts on the rewrites?
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Rewrites look good, much more comprehensive
Edited by LarryT on Aug 4th 2023 at 1:19:36 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Alrighty then I'll cover it short and sweet: with the release of Danny Phantom: A Glitch in Time?
- Dark Danny returns for a final bout, and what goes down has resulted in a need for him to be cut posthaste. He not only suffers a major Villainous Breakdown and risks the entirety of reality to satisfy his petty grudge against Danny, but by the end he breaks down and becomes a completely pathetic, tragic wreck who is regarded with nothing but pity by the characters as he reveals what a broken person he is beneath all the bluster and boasting. All dignity and "magnificence" is stripped from him.
- Clockwork also returns, and while he gets screwed over by Dark Danny, he comes out of it decently so I don't think his entry needs much editing. Same for Black Knight who also returns but doesn't get up to much notably.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!