Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
No. It's a three minute video. And the whole point is to emphasis that a prick got his coming.
Keep Kira and Princess
Cut Spalko
Woagh
Keep the Princess.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Keep the Princess. I'm late on this but I'm also fine zapping Spalko, as while I stand by that the death itself isn't that bad, the point about her essentially being doomed to failure is a strong one.
Popping in real quick to mention a concern about this character:
- Banjo-Kazooie: Gruntilda "Grunty" Winkybunion is an evil witch and the nemesis of Banjo and Kazooie. In the first game, Grunty tries to use a machine to steal the beauty of Banjo's sister and scatters the Jiggies and Jinjo people throughout the land, preventing Banjo from summoning the mighty Jinjonator to stop her. In the second game, after being resurrected, Grunty ruthlessly crushes her enemies: ripping pages from her sentient spell book for planning to betray her, and killing Bottles and the Jinjo King, leaving Banjo and Kazooie without their powerful allies to stand against her. In Grunty's Revenge, she kidnaps Kazooie and forces Banjo to travel through time to save her, coming to a Near-Villain Victory with her scheme.
Two issues:
- Grunty's second-to-last chronological appearance in the games is in Tooie. In the game's ending, the heroes use her undead skull to play kickball for a minute straight, complete with her comically yelping in pain and a gag where one of her eyeballs falls out. This, obviously, is incredibly undignified and not something you want to see an MB go through.
- Grunty's last appearance is in Nuts & Bolts. That game, hypothetically, could salvage the above scene, except it's not addressed in the entry at all, nor was it addressed in the original EP. The logic seems to be that the OP thought it warranted its own separate entry, for reasons I'm not clear on.
Essentially, we have a particularly embarrassing defeat, and the only thing that could salvage it was left unaddressed, meaning we're not operating with complete information. The only way she can stay is if someone comes forth to fill in that hole of information and explain how Grunty retains her street cred; otherwise, she should be cut until further notice.
Edited by DocSharp on Jul 31st 2023 at 12:21:24 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I was meaning to ask about Gruntilda due her embarrassing defeat in the second game. I'm willing to cut some slack if she's at least a competent threat and doesn't suffer a too humiliating defeat in nuts and bolts considering the tone of the games. As Beast Wars Megatron suffered a defeat once where he literally gets a fart nuke on him and he's left hanging on a tree. (I'm not at all saying he needs to be reconsidered).
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
There wasn't much to discuss about NAB. Her defeat amounts to her being forced to work for L.O.G in making games. In NAB she bounces back big time from her humiliating defeat and manages to nearly win the deed to Spiral Mountain. That being said... If you think she's gotta go in spite of this, I won't stop you. Honestly I've got a few candidates of mine I wasn't entirely sold on. Like I'm tempted to suggest a cut for Nagito Komaeda from Danganronpa as well since his plan only works literally because of dumb luck. And it was his back up plan, his ORIGINAL plan in getting everybody but the traitor killed would've given AI!Junko 15 vessels for her AI uploading resurrection. The question is, if a character gets outwitted for something they couldn't possibly see coming, which if this is disqualifying we might need to cut Gundham Tanaka too because he was thwarted by a Spanner in the Works Fuyuhiko.
Edited by Klavice on Jul 30th 2023 at 11:57:05 AM
A nice swimmer
No, being thwarted by something the character couldn't possibly see coming in their plans isn't usually a detriment unless they don't stay cool, which is what Gundham did do and made the best with what they had.
And even when being discovered he still took his defeat and execution gracefully.
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Hey guys, found an unauthorized entry for Spellbinder:
- Magnificent Bitch: Ashka. Throughout both series she managed to play just about everyone on her way to get what she wanted, often as Unwitting Pawns. But what makes her a really interesting villain is her ability to instantly adopt to any changes around her, making it hard for the heroes to keep up with her. She also avoids Villain Ball almost completely, so it takes serious effort to bring her down.
x3 I thought Gundham was cut also because he was played too much for laughs/easily brainwashed and caught by Junko in the Danganronpa 3 anime though? Unsure if there's enough distinction between real Gundham compared to simulation Gundham. All we know is Neo World Program Nagito and real Nagito doesn't contradict each other, since the one in Danganronpa 3 also schemes big time.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jul 31st 2023 at 11:26:48 PM
Cut Grunty. I was thinking of doing a cut post on her myself after watching Designing For’s video on her. She is consistently driven by petty revenge, arrogance, humiliating defeats, and never learning from her past failures, and is more or less reduced to a joke villain by the third game, where her final final final defeat is being forced to work in LOG’s video game factory. Granted, that’s why she’s so beloved, but it doesn’t really make her magnificent to me.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jul 31st 2023 at 3:43:11 PM
This is her end scene:
I do agree it's not dignified at all. The only salvaging thing is her final line is a textbook We Will Meet Again, but until that game (whenever that is), I'm inclined to think her end is too bad. Cut Gruntilda.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Well if that's her second majorly embarrassing defeat and that's how it ends for her entirely (unless by some chance a new game appears and rectifies it), I'm fine with cutting Grunty.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Cut Grunty
Woagh
Cut Gruntilda
Cut Grunty. There may be other smaller scale potentials from the games. The evil robot Mumbo from Tooie might be worth looking at.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Goku Black
Cut Grunty. Well I would have been okay with that defeat that defeat in 2 if she recovered in 3. That doesn't happen so I think cutting is fair.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bye
Cut Grunty
Showtime!
Cut Grunty
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Cut Grunty then. Any issues with Nagito staying? Also Fawful has a pretty embarrassing defeat too of basically trying to take the Mario Bros with him and completely failing to even remotely hurt them, which one could also make the argument that's a very Bad Villainous Breakdown that he never recovers from. Because he's, you know, dead.
Here is the entry as it stands.
- Mario & Luigi: Fawful is introduced as a kooky, crafty subordinate to Cackletta before graduating to Big Bad of the third game in the series. Covertly selling a mushroom causing the Blorbs disease to the Toads of the Mushroom Kingdom, Fawful takes advantage of the chaos to provide Bowser with the Vacuum Shroom to allow him to stir up more trouble as he inhales everything in sight. Taking over Bowser's castle, Fawful brainwashes the former's minions into helping him fatten their boss up to allow him to extract Princess Peach from his body and awaken the Dark Star to rule the Mushroom Kingdom. Even when faced down by Bowser and the Mario brothers, Fawful takes in all the power he can to fight to his last.
It also doesn't mention Minions Quest or Jr's Journey which to be fair, I had no patience for and they were written to be ambiguously Canon.
Edited by Klavice on Jul 31st 2023 at 4:41:19 AM
Cut Gruntilda
Conflicted on Fawful — his defeat isn't that bad, it's less Suicidal Cosmic Temper Tantrum and more Taking You with Me and he keeps his trademark grin to the end. That said, charming as he is, I don't know if manipulating the less-than-intelligent Bowser and winning over his minions offscreen is enough.
Woagh
Keep Fawful, i highly doubt that Bowser's so dumb that Fawful's genuinely good planning is overshadowed and his last moments don't read anything like a Villainous Breakdown, just Defiant to the End.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Thing about Nagito is that while he relies a lot on luck, his luck is actually an exploitable resource.
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
x3 "Any issues with Nagito staying?" Nope, the guy is actually a decent keeper in and out of the NWP.
Honestly sounds toned down. We have approved carnivorous predators before like the Spider from Spider and the Fly who does what he does because it's his nature to eat insects rather than sadism.
Could be the case here, but won't try to pretend like I know.