Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here
) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread
.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread
, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread
. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
Thinking it through I think I’ll have to say the same: I talked about curve grading but I think that applies better for something like over the top hamminess Kira gets. With Spalko I can’t help but feel on a review she always meant to use the aliens for enhanced knowledge and we see exactly how that turns out. Much like the Nazis with the Arc, the grail and the dial it was a plan doomed to fail and it’s difficult for me to see that as magnificent in any circumstance. Shame because she hits the criteria quite well otherwise.
Cut Spalko.
I'm just gonna mention that the Lego Game adapts this by totally removing her death and replacing it with her becoming a fucking sith lord with full control over her powers so now i'm adding that to my investigation list.
Nothing about that was made up lmao.
(Lego Indy 2 Elza should be good having looked it up, she gets some good plans while adapting out her ending and she actually gets more screentime than the Big Bad)
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jul 29th 2023 at 7:46:13 AM
As the one who EPed Spalko I guess I'll weigh in.
During the initial discussion, we actually looked over her death scene, with people agreeing she way pretty composed for the majority of it, where she only started screaming when she was in clear pain.
The main difference between her and Belloq is: Belloq was in over his head, ignored warnings from Indie, and ultimately failed to get anything out of his quest. Spalko was dealing with something that completely baffled Indie and she was more knowledgeable on, and she had a Pyrrhic Victory where she technically did succeed in her quest but just miscalculated her body's physical limitations.
As far as Indiana Karmic Deaths go, she's the most dignified one compared to the other big bads.
If she gets cut, she gets cut. I won't fight it. But just wanted to address the points laid out in the cut request.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 29th 2023 at 9:57:03 AM
I do sincerely think she's a damn good case for this trope but what I can't find myself being able to overlook is the trap that her goal is one that's doomed to fail. She's brilliant and has reason to think she'll be prepared to handle the aliens' "gift" but she's ultimately seeking an eldritch power she doesn't fully understand and dies in a brutal Be Careful What You Wish For manner and I can't get behind an MB who's goal can only lead to failure.
Gonna lean cut Spalko with all arguments. Looking forward to Sith Lord version of her thought.
There's a Western Animation bastard that I think has some cut worthy qualities:
- Britannica's Tales Around the World's "The Woodcutter's Wealthy Sister": The "Princess" is a clever monster who assumes a human form to lure in greedy victims by pretending to be their long lost sister. Pulling this con on a woodcutter and his family, the Princess proceeds to fatten them up in a life of luxury. When their heroic cow prevents her from attacking the family, the Princess tricks the woodcutter into slaughtering it for beef with the Woodcutter himself finally falling victim to her once his family escapes.
For one, the Princess only manages to fool the Woodcutter himself, the wife is not fooled by her at all. In fact, the wife tells him multiple times that she isn't really his sister but he ignores it, which leads to the wife's escape and his death. (The Woodcutter is also listed as Too Dumb to Live). Also, the demon itself is too sadistic in my opinion (it is a demon after all) as it literally eats people, and in its original story it ripped the Wootcutter apart from limb to limb (granted this was removed from the Britannica's version)
Honestly nothing even sounds that bad here
. This guy sounds like an ass and using his own greed and selfishness against him is not going to lie actually pretty cool. I'll go with keep for like a random one off character.
Could the Princess be considered as a Complete Monster? She fully intended to eat all 12 members of the family, and the only reason why she doesn't is because the wife and kids escaped
Image Pickin' Backlog

Imo Belloq's biggest issue is his extremely smug attitude which from my memory Spalko lacks (that and being a Nazi collaborator). I honestly don't find the trend of villains being done in by what they're looking for to be too mitigating since it's typically portrayed as something the bad guy couldn't have accounted for (except for Elsa whose death was directly caused by her choosing the Grail over her safety).