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Magnificent Bastard Cleanup

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Old Magnificent Bastard thread

Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List

Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM

FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#4776: Sep 17th 2024 at 1:58:57 PM

Whip Whiplash, I say whip it, whip it good!

Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Sep 17th 2024 at 6:01:34 AM

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#4777: Sep 17th 2024 at 2:22:14 PM

Cut Whiplash

It's Spooky Month!
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#4778: Sep 17th 2024 at 2:23:46 PM

Whip Whiplash off the MB list. As the man himself would say, "Curses, foiled again!"

Edited by LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime on Sep 17th 2024 at 8:08:21 AM

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#4779: Sep 17th 2024 at 2:27:40 PM

Abstaining on Whiplash purely because it's Snidely, not Sidney.

Just kidding. Cut Snidely Wiplash.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4780: Sep 17th 2024 at 2:50:34 PM

To be fair, I did mention most of this stuff in the Snidely EP. I also again mentioned that tone was something to consider here too. This is a purposely cartoonish and silly world much like Despicable Me.

And yes, I did rewatch the movie BEFORE I wrote the EP for this one. I wanted to make that clear.

Gonna abstain. Not necessarily for his exclusion, but not gonna protest it either.

Here's the EP for the record. Feel free to take a look.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 17th 2024 at 3:00:57 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#4781: Sep 17th 2024 at 3:14:31 PM

The difference between Despicable Me and this movie is that their antagonists aren't humiliated during their scheming? I get that the movie's suppose to be silly and periodic but that doesn't automatically make Snidley immune to being humiliated and actively making mistakes that screw him over.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4782: Sep 17th 2024 at 3:17:51 PM

Well I rolled the dice. Not protesting this one. In fact, I personally removed the entry from the sandboxes and YMMV myself and I wrote the Former MB entry too.

Also, I just realized the original writeup for Noah Diaz was done by Dood and not Flower. Forgotten about that. Sorry.

Should we restore the original in that case?

For comparison, here's Dood's:

  • Rise of the Beasts: Noah Diaz is a former solider who turned to crime to support his family, willing taking up a carjacking job for his friend Reek. Being roped into helping the Autobots by a disguised Mirage, he sneaks into a facility to get the Transwarp Key, saving the researcher Elana Wallace when the Terrorcons attack. Willingly joining the Autobots after learning of Unicron's potential arrival, he secretly plans on destroying the Transwarp Key to prevent Unicron from being summoned, risking the Autobots being stranded on earth without their consent. Once talked down by Optimus Prime from destroying it at the last second, Noah's contributions to the battle ultimately result in the earth being saved from Unicron while also staying behind to save Optimus, afterwards being offered a job by G.I. Joe while getting the pay for his brother's medical bills in the process.

And here's mine, the current:

  • Rise of the Beasts: Noah Diaz is a former soldier who willingly agrees to helping steal cars in order to get money to pay for his sick younger brother Kris's medicine and upon discovering Mirage and the Autobots, agrees to help them recover the Transwarp Key needed to send themselves back to Cybertron while also saving museum worker Elena Wallace from Scourge and the other Terrocons. Upon realizing the Terrocons want both halves of the key to bring Unicron to devour Earth, Noah convinces Elena to help him get a hold of the key once it's in one piece in order to destroy it—which he fully knows will unwillingly strand the Autobots on Earth by doing so. Though Noah relents, he does eventually help battle Scourge with Mirage providing him his machinery as a suit and gets Optimus Prime to agree to help destroy the key and prevent Unicron's arrival by doing so—with Noah then recruited by G.I. Joe for his involvement and provided benefits to fully support Kris's treatment.

Up to the thread to decide which one we keep. Happy with either one.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 17th 2024 at 3:45:14 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#4784: Sep 17th 2024 at 5:23:19 PM

I’m so confused. What happened with Noah Diaz?

I prefer the entry you say was done by Dood though.

Edited by PassingThrough on Sep 17th 2024 at 8:23:59 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4785: Sep 17th 2024 at 6:49:00 PM

FlowerPicking did the EP for Noah last year and then lost confidence in him counting, so Dood did the writeup instead since he was approved. Then Flower was revealed to be a ban evader and Noah's status was brought into question. When I got back, one of the first things I did was vouch for him and give him a new entry.

Since I just realized Dood did the initial writeup and is in good standing, I figured the writeup probably didn’t need to be changed to begin with. That's why I wanted to bring it back to the thread to decide what the right choice would be in this situation.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#4786: Sep 18th 2024 at 4:07:31 AM

By the way, I brought up when Update 3.0 dropped for Rebuild The Capital that Opal and Dowling's entries needed to be updated to reflect that the Lone Wanderer's title in the Brotherhood was changed from Field Marshal to Sentinel. It wasn't acknowledged, and the entries weren't changed.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#4787: Sep 18th 2024 at 4:09:04 AM

Use Dood's write-up

Edited by Bozzy on Sep 18th 2024 at 4:10:24 AM

Dude-of-Wealth-And-Taste (Apprentice) Relationship Status: Become a part of me!
#4788: Sep 18th 2024 at 5:48:49 AM

Cut Whiplash

Till all are one.
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#4789: Sep 18th 2024 at 8:17:42 AM

I have gathered arguments against Aegon after my last attempt to cut him failed.

  • He's an incestuous bigamist. He genuinely loves his sisters - I give him that- but Rhaenys is younger than him so there's definitely power imbalance in the relationship. If rumours are true, she secretly took lovers so his relationship with her migth be one-sided.
  • When King Argilac proposes a non-incestuous marriage with his daughter, Aegon declines preferring to pursue incest. This backfires badly as Argilac takes this as an insult and turns against him.
  • Overal, he's too overpowered. He has three dragons on his side while his ennemies are no match for him. It's not like the Dance of Dragons where both sides of the conflict had dragons and were on the same level.
  • His vassal Lord Oakheart sends him a raven, suggesting that Deria Martell be sold into "the meanest brothel in King's Landing, till every beggar in the city has had his pleasure of her." While Aegon doesn't go through it, he doesn't punish the bastard for his abominable suggestion despite having the authority to do so.
  • Despite having dragons, his campaign against Dorne is a disaster and Meria Martell wins.
  • He also fails to raise his sons properly: one grows up to be a well-meaning but ultimately unfit ruler. The other? becomes one of the most infamous Complete Monster in the setting.
  • Finally, it's not until two generations later, under Jaehaerys' rule, that the Droit du Seigneur law was overuled by Queen Alysanne's request. By implication, Aegon had no issue with his vassals having their way with their subjects.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4790: Sep 18th 2024 at 8:21:49 AM

Swap's been made for Noah in both the sandbox and the YMMV. Dood's original writeup has now been restored.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#4791: Sep 18th 2024 at 8:30:14 AM

All I’m seeing from the Aegon post is a lot of implication, Fridge Horror, blaming him for other people’s acts, and contradictory information to be honest (like calling him too overpowered while acknowledging he has a failure). Unless there’s a different counter argument, right now I’m a keep.

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#4792: Sep 18th 2024 at 8:36:16 AM

Keep Aegon. In addition to what STAR said the Droit du Seigneur was acknowledged as being amongst Westeros traditions he couldn't just uproot to avoid rebellion.

An additional concern I'd like to posit is this takes bits of the story in very specific bits. For instance, it fails to mention stuff like Aegon offering Argilac's daughter his brother Orys' hand in marriage and Argilac deciding to cut off the messenger's hands in a rage in response which gives the impression Aegon just insulted the king with no attempt to negotiate...

Edited by PassingThrough on Sep 18th 2024 at 12:03:21 PM

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#4793: Sep 18th 2024 at 9:11:42 AM

Cut Whiplash, Keep Aegon.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#4796: Sep 18th 2024 at 10:12:01 AM

[up][up]My point is that Aegon was given the opportunity to marry an unrelated woman and still refused.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#4799: Sep 18th 2024 at 12:33:42 PM

My point is that Aegon was given the opportunity to marry an unrelated woman and still refused.

Why does a person not wanting to marry someone they aren't interested in supposedly impact their magnificence?

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#4800: Sep 18th 2024 at 12:54:49 PM

Keep Aegon.

As a side note, Aegon marrying a relative is nothing new for the setting or his family. So, I don't think him not marrying someone not related to him affects his stance here at all and don't get why that was mentioned.

Edited by Bullman on Sep 18th 2024 at 2:55:14 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

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