Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
The wifi here sucks
Honestly I'm fine with Yusuf being cut, I proposed him and Ariadne mostly just cover all the bases in the film (and imo I think Ariadne is closer to this trope than he is anyways)
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Ravok bringing up the peeing thing is another good point against Yusuf's overall character. He has these moments of incompetence for the sake of humor at his expense, making him look like the joke of the team.
It is indeed amusing that The Smart Guy is the only one who doesn't count here, but that just goes to show that being smart on its own isn't enough to be Magnificent.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yep, like why Rick Sanchez isn't this trope.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jan 2nd 2023 at 6:12:09 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I was gonna say that yeah, if she wasn't too much of a moral compass, Ariadne would've counted and indeed bring a stronger keep.
Definitely takes more than just being smart—even though that's a big part of it. If that was the case and brains alone got someone on here, we would've approved Romney Wordsworth from "The Obsolete Man".
Bye
Cut Yusuf
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut Yusuf.
I put Yusuf on the Former MBs page in the multiple reasons section. Was that the right call?
I would say so Future.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Caesar
I approve of the Krrsantan move!
I've got a cut of one of my own to process now, btw:
- G.I. Joe: Resolute: Snake Eyes is a perpetually silent, badass ninja who served as the G.I. Joe team's trump card in many situations. Called out to a final battle by his Arch-Enemy Storm Shadow, Snake Eyes locates Storm Shadow's whereabouts on an island and, realizing that Cobra troops are scattered around the area, systematically and brutally takes them down one by one. Sneaking up practically invisible on some, leaving others hanging to scare their fellow troops, and using the corpses of even more as booby traps, Snake Eyes effortlessly picks off the skilled troops around the island on his path to Storm Shadow. During his fight with Storm Shadow, Snake Eyes almost always has the upper hand, notably blocking a sword strike from his enemy with his bare hand and shrugging off the massive pain, before tricking Storm Shadow into lowering his guard so as to cripple him. Snake Eyes then kills the defenseless Storm Shadow with a skillset that Storm Shadow has long coveted, but nonetheless gives his long-time enemy a proper burial afterwards.
My argument at the time was that Snake Eyes pulling off a Mook Horror Show to pick off the Cobra troops and his ultimate murder of Storm Shadow being so cruel pushed him into enough "bastard" territory, but honestly I don't quite think it holds up. Storm Shadow is an asshole who murdered Snake Eyes' master when they were kids and one of his allies before their duel, so Snake being a bit harsh on him can be forgiven...and the Mook Horror Show he puts the minions through is, ehhh, still ultimately just "terrorizing and killing off willing members of a terrorist organization that is currently mass murdering millions of people." If Snake got up to some more blatant torture of the Cobra mooks it'd be one thing, but as is he's mostly utilizing basic—if brutal—Anti-Hero methods to pick off enemy troops efficiently.
The character is obviously magnificent, but I think he's ultimately failing the "bastard" section, upon review.
Edited by Ravok on Jan 2nd 2023 at 11:32:37 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Hmm, I could either way for Snake Eyes. If the Mook Horror Show involves propping up the corpses of their fallen comrades to terrify and demoralize still surviving members, that's a bit more bastardly than an average hero or anti-hero.
I think I'll abstain for now pending more discussion, but could be easily swayed for either side.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jan 3rd 2023 at 1:24:15 AM
Not the Eye
Thing with corpeses is bad, maybe just enought. Granted they are terorista currently about to kill billions.
Abstain for now as well.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Cut Yusuf
Abstain on Snake Eyes
Where do we draw the line on bastardry with how violent the protagonist is with Mooks?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
When you're doing it to the mooks of a genocidal madman who wants to nuke washington dc, I feel like it's not too bad. Like if they were random terrorists taking people hostage that would be one thing, but the scale and sadism of there commander makes me feel like there solely Asshole Victims.
I'm a cut.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Lies and Violence!
Cut Yusuf and SE.
I think I was supportive of Snake Eyes on the basis of the "Brutality towards 'enemies' who amount to ants against him" but now knowing they're genocidal supporting assholes to a one makes me feel he's just got some Anti-Hero shades to him. I'll support the cut there.
@ Wet, The thing we look at is the morality involved... if they're just guys with a job to guard bits of the villain's hideout that's one thing, if they're knowingly on board with a heinous scheme that makes it hard to call killing them 'bastards'. It was the snag Olivier Armstrong ran into, given her targets all want to sacrifice their country to gain immortality.
Edited by 43110 on Jan 3rd 2023 at 1:15:56 PM
Not the Eye
Officialy switching to cuting snake eyes.
Gotta love Jaws!
Goku Black
Cut Snake eyes.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bye
Cut Snake Eyes
Edited by TotemGenitor on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:49:55 PM
From what I'm looking at with Ravok's assessment, yeah ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to keeping that version of Snake Eyes. If you look at the other version—the one from the 2021 film—who's actively working with the bad guys to service his agenda, that's more fitting than this sounds.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 3rd 2023 at 12:09:44 PM
Woagh
Cut Snake Eyes.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Cut Snake Eyes
Cut Snake Eyes
I hate spoilers
Regarding Snake Eyes, wasn't the whole Mook Horror Show deal the reason why MCU Hawkeye was considered worthy of the "bastard" part in his own series? What happens to him?
Edited by 227someguy on Jan 3rd 2023 at 3:44:26 PM
Everyone look at my sandbox
I think he also did wet work for SHIELD. So yeah, it's not all from when his family got blipped and he became Rowan.
Cut Yusuf