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Magnificent Bastard Cleanup

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Old Magnificent Bastard thread

Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List

Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#3626: Jun 1st 2024 at 12:55:39 PM

After reading through their entries (in a hammy manner, no less!) I agree with Lore. Only Jaxartes and the Dark Elf are worth keeping up. They should be rewritten though.

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#3627: Jun 1st 2024 at 3:04:25 PM

Someone wanna take care of those and we’ll cut the rest?

marston Since: Sep, 2011
#3628: Jun 1st 2024 at 3:55:12 PM

Looked at the MB Anime and Manga 0 to Z page and the YMMV page for Yu Yu Hakusho. I noticed that Kurama is rather low in the MB tree for YYH, and I feel like he should be at the top of it because he's one of the main characters of the series while the other MB's are only around for an arc or two.

Edited by marston on Jun 1st 2024 at 4:18:15 AM

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
marston Since: Sep, 2011
#3630: Jun 1st 2024 at 5:08:58 PM

Moved him on the YMMV page, but someone else needs to do so on the Anime MB page.

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#3631: Jun 1st 2024 at 7:07:58 PM

I'd like to discuss Jafar from Mickey's House of Villains:

  • Magnificent Bastard: Jafar shows he's just as magnificent as he is in the films, orchestrating a takeover of the House by convincing all the Disney villains to ally into a Legion of Doom. When the time comes for the takeover, Jafar kicks Mickey and Minnie out amid the grand Villain Song "It's Our House Now!"

This writeup seems pretty underwhelming. Ya sure he was approved? If not, nuke him. If so, he REALLY needs a rewrite.

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3632: Jun 1st 2024 at 7:14:40 PM

I know for a fact he was approved and keepers are allowed to have short write-ups based on the work they come from. I know the film is a series of shorts so to me it makes perfect sense to have a shorter writeup

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#3633: Jun 1st 2024 at 7:17:14 PM

Ah, I see. Still seems quite barebones to me though.

[down] Fair enough, let's pretend we never had this conversation

Edited by LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime on Jun 2nd 2024 at 12:37:05 PM

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#3634: Jun 2nd 2024 at 12:18:41 PM

If there’s something to add that’s one thing but if that’s what he does I wouldn’t call it barebones or say it’s in desperate need of a rewrite.

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#3635: Jun 2nd 2024 at 5:58:21 PM

Oh, and since I just remembered this; we're gonna need to cut Tippy Doorman since they were proposed by LarryT.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#3636: Jun 2nd 2024 at 6:19:25 PM

Quick, somebody radio Dood and tell him there’s a Lego character needing to be rescued from MB-damnation 😂

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#3637: Jun 2nd 2024 at 6:28:24 PM

Y'all called?

Seriously tho, i think some episodes are up on Youtube so i could take a gander, seemed like a fun candidate.

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#3638: Jun 2nd 2024 at 7:08:39 PM

Feel free to repropose, just noting that he'll need to be cut for the time being since a ban evader EP'd him.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#3639: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:16:55 AM

So The Legend of Korra - Varrick and Zhu Li exists, I'm not sure how to add this, should we just add them to both entries or something else

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#3640: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:27:20 AM

We actually already discussed that and decided not to pothole it. Mainly because we couldn't figure out how to pothole it.

Edited by Bullman on Jun 3rd 2024 at 12:28:54 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#3641: Jun 3rd 2024 at 2:17:04 PM

As a belated birthday treat for myself, I got off my ass and decided to do those PGTE rewrites I've been meaning to do for a while now.

I'm probably going to leave it at these three for just now, aside from a few minor grammar/word changes to improve flow in other entries. I'm starting a reread because I want to re-evaluate three or so of the characters currently up, and I don't want to do updates only to remove the entries later on or find something else I should have included.

If that has anyone worried about length when put next to the below: as I mentioned in the above post, these three should be the only ones that are this long. The series is, as I've stated many a time before, longer than the entirety of ASOIAF, and these are the closest things to main characters. Maybe also Cordelia, but I'll try to avoid that whenever I get around to her.

    Originals 
  • Catherine Foundling rises from a mere orphan to the dreaded "Black Queen" of Callow in her quest for peace. Chosen by the Black Knight to become his Squire, Catherine battles her way to victory in the hopes of swindling rule over Callow from the cruel Imperials, emerging against impossible odds to best the Lone Swordsman and Akua Sahelian's respective rebellions while swaying legions of competent minions and fellow villains to her banner through her charisma and drive. Garnering enough acclaim to take Callow for herself after orchestrating the destruction of the Winter and Summer Courts to claim the former's power as her own, Catherine weathers the Tenth Crusade and gains the favor of the goddesses Sve Noc, outwitting the legendary Grey Pilgrim to bring the Principate to heel. Catherine and her Woe make alliance with their former enemies to war on the genocidal plans of the Dead King and the Wandering Bard, leading the charge against the former on the warfront while battling the latter's all-encompassing schemes as Catherine becomes the Warden to corral the nations of Calernia into accepting her rules for Named and reining in the infamous mass-slaughters of their era. Bringing peace to not only Callow but also the very conflict between heroes and villains itself, Catherine and her Woe leave their homelands in an unprecedented Age of Order as they seek new adventures in distant lands.
  • Akua Sahelian began as Catherine's most hated enemy and the embodiment of the worst vices of Praesi cruelty before evolving into the unofficial sixth of the Woe, Catherine's one true equal, and a truly selfless individual. Having sought to uphold the Praesi values of bloodshed and backstabbing as the Heiress, Akua clashed with Catherine several times as a guise for her true ambitions, always emerging with a stronger powerbase than before. Eventually rising as the Diabolist, Akua usurps her mother's resources to lead her own uprising, crafting a doomsday weapon to butcher any in her way and matching the Empire itself blow for blow until her ultimate defeat. Even as a mere shade Akua is able to scheme and charm her way to greater power, aiding Catherine in her battles against the Tenth Crusade and the Firstborn while mentoring her former enemy in mastering the eldritch powers of Winter and Night, all the while growing a true conscience and breaking free from the destinies others have chosen for her. Well aware she's Beyond Redemption yet content to do whatever it takes to help the innocent nonetheless, Akua aids in the destruction of the horrific Dread Empire she had once sought to claim as her own before permanently binding herself to the Intercessor, glad to give up everything by becoming the Calamity to the Bard's Providence if it means saving others.
  • Amadeus of the Green Stretch, the Black Knight, is the leader of the Calamities and Dragon-in-Chief to Dread Empress Malicia responsible for the brutally swift Conquest of Callow and the longest reign ever seen in Praes. Amadeus has reforged the unnecessarily evil aspects of the Empire to rule pragmatically, using his spy network to murder scores of nascent heroes; reforming the Legions of Terror to give competent orcs and goblins positions of authority; and improving living conditions in Callow to stifle interest in rebellion. To further his plan of permanently integrating Callow into the Empire, the "Carrion Lord" takes on Catherine Foundling as his Squire, giving her the guidance and freedom necessary for her to grow into a proper ruler and terrifying villain rivaling his own reputation. Continuing to silently aid his apprentice even after she breaks from Praes, Amadeus challenges Malicia's rule out of disgust for her increasingly insane plots and spends the next few years furthering the Praesi civil war, orchestrating the complete annihilation of the Dread Empire without ever getting directly involved in the conflict. An unapologetic monster who will fight tooth and nail to protect those he loves, Amadeus' final act is to force Catherine to spare Alaya from her bloody vengeance for eight more years, nonetheless dying with pride in the girl he has come to see as his own daughter.

For Cat, I wanted emphasize her A God I Am Not tendencies/character growth and relationship with Akua, as both are pretty important to the overall Myth Arc.

In Akua's entry I also emphasized her relationship with Cat, plus expanded on her redemption (since, as I noted here, it's an important beat to consider) and just how thoroughly she wrecks the Bard's shit to prove she's truly grown as a person.

Amadeus has a brief mention of why Dread Empress Malicia doesn't count (despite her sheer badassness for six-sevenths of the story, she faceplants really, really badly to get to her Heel–Face Turn); fixed an error in the penultimate sentence—he does get involved in the conflict, just not much; and emphasized he's not just destroying the empire for a petty tantrum.

    New 
  • Catherine Foundling rises from an impulsive orphan to the dreaded "Black Queen" of Callow in her quest for peace. Chosen by the Black Knight to become his Squire, Catherine battles her way to victory against countless opponents in hopes of swindling rule over Callow from the cruel Imperials, emerging against impossible odds to best the Lone Swordsman and Akua Sahelian's respective rebellions while assembling legions of competent minions and fellow villains through her charisma and drive. Garnering enough acclaim to take Callow for herself after orchestrating the destruction of the Winter and Summer Courts, claiming the former's power as her own in the process, Catherine weathers the Tenth Crusade and gains the favor of the goddesses Sve Noc, but ultimately refuses the path to divinity as she abandons self-centered cruelty to embrace the love and empathy of mortality. Catherine goes on to outwit the legendary Grey Pilgrim and bring the Principate to heel, before making alliance with them so as to war on the genocidal plans of the Dead King and the Wandering Bard. Leading the charge against the former while overcoming the latter's all-encompassing schemes, Catherine becomes the Warden to corral Calernia into reining in the infamous mass-slaughters of their era. In one of her crowning achievements, Catherine gains revenge on Akua for her atrocities by manipulating the noble into a Heel–Face Turn—ensuring she chooses to do good of her own free will even while tormented with guilt—and never falters from exacting this punishment, even as she breaks her own heart from falling in love with the villainess. Bringing order to not only Callow but also the very conflict between heroes and villains itself, Catherine and her Woe leave their homelands in an unprecedented era of hope for all as they seek new adventures in distant lands.
  • Akua Sahelian began as Catherine's most hated enemy and the embodiment of the worst of Praesi cruelty before evolving into the unofficial sixth of the Woe, Catherine's one true equal, and a truly selfless individual. Initially seeking to uphold the Praesi traditions of bloodshed and backstabbing as the Heiress, Akua repeatedly clashed with Catherine and manipulated her way to success no matter how badly she lost to her rival. Eventually rising as the Diabolist, Akua leads her own uprising and turns Liesse into a massive doomsday weapon capable of butchering anyone in her way, matching the Empire blow for blow until her defeat. Even when reduced to a mere shade, Akua charms her way to greater power by aiding Catherine with political counsel against the Tenth Crusade and the Firstborn, all while mentoring her former enemy in mastering the eldritch powers of Winter and Night. As she becomes closer to the Woe, falls in love with Catherine, and is subsequently manipulated into growing a true conscience, Akua nonetheless takes charge of her own destiny upon realizing this—despite knowing full well that she's Beyond Redemption for her atrocities—and aids in the destruction of the horrific Dread Empire she once sought for herself. In her crowning achievement, Akua single-handedly upends Yara's genocidal schemes by fettering herself to the Intercessor, balancing out Yara's Providence with her own Calamity in the process. With the Game of the Gods forever changed yet simultaneously restored to fairness, Akua remains content eternally guiding future villains in avoiding her follies, glad to have given up everything so long as she can save others.
  • Amadeus of the Green Stretch, the Black Knight, is the leader of the Calamities and the Dragon-in-Chief to Dread Empress Malicia, responsible for orchestrating the brutally swift Conquest of Callow and the longest reign any Tyrant has ever held over Praes. Just as ruthlessly brilliant as his accomplice but never succumbing to the instability brought upon by the Tower, Amadeus has scoured the wastefully evil aspects of Praes to rule pragmatically, notably using his spy network to murder scores of nascent heroes and smother the stories that would create them; reforming the Legions of Terror to give competent orcs and goblins authority; and improving conditions in Callow to stifle interest in rebellion. To further his plan of permanently integrating Callow into the Empire, the "Carrion Lord" takes on Catherine Foundling as his Squire and mentors her whilst continuing to crush threats to Praes, giving her the guidance and freedom necessary to grow into a proper ruler and terrifying villain rivaling his own reputation. Continuing to proudly aid his apprentice even after she breaks from Praes, Amadeus challenges Malicia's rule out of disgust for her increasingly insane plots and spends the next few years escalating the Praesi civil war, orchestrating the complete annihilation of the Dread Empire and its rebirth into a more stable nation with only sparse direct involvement in the conflict. An unapologetic monster who will fight tooth and nail to protect those he loves, Amadeus' final act is to force Catherine to spare Alaya from her bloody vengeance for eight more years, yet dies with nothing but pride in the girl he has come to see as his own daughter.

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#3642: Jun 3rd 2024 at 2:22:26 PM

Varrick and Zhu Li should probably be getting merged back looking at the byte count even beyond that though.

Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#3643: Jun 4th 2024 at 11:46:08 AM

I had been planning this for a long time, but kept forgetting to do it. In general, from memory, Pavel from Metro is very good and G described everything quite accurately. He really masterfully gets out of various dangerous situations, manipulates Artem and has nothing to do with the worst aspects of Korbut's plan, plus Pavel has a lot of redeeming qualities and even when he is defeated and complete fear is shown, it is only because he found himself in a completely frightening and a strange place. He always seemed like a perfect example of MB and am very happy to vouch that everything is fine with him.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#3644: Jun 4th 2024 at 12:10:29 PM

[up] Could you elaborate if you're replying to something? I assume you mean you support restoring this example.

Edited by Amonimus on Jun 4th 2024 at 11:02:10 AM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3645: Jun 4th 2024 at 12:47:44 PM

Ghal’s been effectively spearheading the example vouching for G’s cut examples for months now, so with that context I at least knew what he was going for.

Ghal if you’re comfortable vouching for Pavel, you can go ahead and put him back up!

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#3646: Jun 4th 2024 at 1:31:26 PM

[up] Ah, okay. It's still best to note the subject.

Decided to look at G's drafts while at it, as Former Magnificent Bastards says to bring it up, this is the only one I know. While "accurate",

  • Ori and the Blind Forest never the actual reason Gumo took the Water Vein, so fan theories aside it's not like he had some sort of known plan. He gives up on the Water Vein after being rescued anyway.
  • I'm not sure if "cunningly outpace" is applicable if the camera just shows him in the next areas while the Take Your Time-pacing is in effect so the player wouldn't get lost.
  • Getting hit by a boulder after pulling a trap lever after it got stuck and needing to be rescued isn't a good look.
  • He's only an antagonist for one chase level, after which he's an unambiguous Nice Guy.
I assume it's not enough for a MB.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#3647: Jun 4th 2024 at 1:40:37 PM

Well it ain’t an endorsement to re-add him, I can tell you that much!

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#3648: Jun 4th 2024 at 1:42:23 PM

Yeah, not feeling confident about his inclusion with those details.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#3649: Jun 4th 2024 at 6:20:21 PM

Yeah that sounds like a reason to cut.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons

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