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Magnificent Bastard Cleanup

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Old Magnificent Bastard thread

Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List

Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#276: Dec 22nd 2022 at 2:24:20 PM

Trimmed to 196.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#277: Dec 22nd 2022 at 3:28:23 PM

Appreciated, that's perfect!

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#278: Dec 22nd 2022 at 7:59:37 PM

I heard someone at one point bring up how Pierce Nichody is too arrogant to count due to attempting to pay off the Judge and Edgeworth, then proceeding to insult them when they refuse to end the trial and thus has too much of a Villainous Breakdown to count. I don't think we should cut villains based on one lapse into rage. My counterargument to that is simple: Pierce easily recovers as you'll see in footage of Turnabout Time Traveler near the end. Besides, most Ace Attorney villains have a breakdown of sorts and he accepts defeat gracefully after being beaten, even admitting Phoenix was a worthy adversary. The Dr. Jerk persona is just part of his understandable anger at Sorin for Selena (his fiancé) dying due to him driving the car, and Selena's injuries were worse when he could have saved them both.

Edited by Klavice on Dec 22nd 2022 at 8:00:38 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#280: Dec 24th 2022 at 7:40:54 AM

Funny that I should come back to an Ace Attorney discussion. I have something related to the series... there's a candidate I proposed back in February who seemed to go over well with the old forum, but I wasn't sure what to do afterwards, so I just kind of ignored the votes. Is it too late to sum him up and add him somewhere? And, if so, how would I go about doing that? Do I have to use the sandboxes, or has the entire landscape of this trope changed? (I was not following the "CM/MB reforms" thread too closely.)

Oh, and here's his EP.

Edit: [up][up] I haven't played Turnabout Time Traveller yet, but it depends on how harsh and/or petty the insults are. If Pierce's insults don't make him look childish and he surrenders gracefully, I don't think it's bad— the Villainous Breakdowns in this series are very intense. Sounds like a Dee Vasquez kind of situation, where she calmly admitted defeat after a momentary display of rage (snapping her pipe in two).

Edited by carduinal-cyn on Dec 24th 2022 at 7:47:24 AM

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#281: Dec 24th 2022 at 8:46:34 AM

Go for it if he got the upvotes!

carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#282: Dec 24th 2022 at 8:58:22 AM

[up] I counted five upvotes, 0 downvotes. But not a lot of engagement, as he came smack-dab between Sly Cooper and RJ from Over the Hedge, both of which were controversial. Is that enough to continue onward and make the final writeup?

Edited by carduinal-cyn on Dec 24th 2022 at 8:58:32 AM

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#283: Dec 24th 2022 at 9:12:34 AM

It is and call me a yes as well (Apologies for missing voting last time!)

carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#284: Dec 24th 2022 at 10:11:02 AM

Alright, cool, here goes nothing.

Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney Case 5: Turnabout Substitution: Paul Strings, the Chief Justice, is a shrewd, cunning figure with a mind for philosophy and a Self-Made Man par excellence. In the past, Strings rose to prominence in the legal system by taking part in a conspiracy to catch the Mysterious Bust Killer, forging a psychological profile of the defendant, Robert Erlenmeyer, in exchange for power. Secretly believing in Erlenmeyer's innocence, Strings leaks the profile to Erlenmeyer's defense attorney, sparing him the death penalty. Strings kicks off the events of the game by faking Erlenmeyer's death and framing the corrupt Judge Chambers for his "murder". This elaborate prison break not only frees Erlenmeyer from the insane asylum, but also stops Chambers from making any more unfair rulings and allows him to install his more upstanding son in Chambers's place. When Strings's plot is unravelled, he willingly admits defeat, fully convinced that he did what needed to be done. At the climax, Strings leverages his position while still in prison to get a search warrant for the real Mysterious Bust Killer, allowing Apollo Justice to conclusively reveal the truth of the case and clear Erlenmeyer's name once and for all.

Any edits I should make, given the EP? It's under 200 words but feels a bit long.

Edited by carduinal-cyn on Dec 24th 2022 at 3:06:43 AM

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#285: Dec 24th 2022 at 2:13:29 PM

At a glance I'd combine the third and fourth sentences to "Secretly believing in Erlenmeyer's innocence, Strings leaks the profile to Erlenmeyer's defense attorney, sparing him the death penalty." Otherwise it's quite manageable, good work!

carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#286: Dec 24th 2022 at 3:07:04 PM

Cool, I made the edits. What is the new protocol?

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#287: Dec 24th 2022 at 4:39:42 PM

Just leave it in the drafts page on my sig and it'll get taken care of!

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#288: Dec 24th 2022 at 8:31:37 PM

So having seen The Menu a few days ago, no keepers there either—with a couple of the characters missing for different reasons.

I was gonna suggest reversing the cut decision from nearly two years ago on Humpty Alexander Dumpty since the reasoning is flimsy and the criteria has changed too, but it's not my place since one or two other Tropers STAR and Ravok—the one who originally got said candidate up and the other the one who suggested cutting him respectively—said they would redo him and while this would just be calling for a vote reversal, it's probably not the same thing as cutting an actual entry though. It's to the rest of the thread's discretion of course. This for the record was briefly discussed in the midst of approving The Pied Piper.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#289: Dec 24th 2022 at 8:33:57 PM

We can't do that until the approval thread opens.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#290: Dec 24th 2022 at 8:38:08 PM

Yeah. Cutting or updating a current entry is different from putting a new one up—or putting an old one back up.

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#291: Dec 25th 2022 at 12:09:41 AM

I took the liberty of adding a link to Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Sandboxes to the end of the pinned post. Lemme know if y'all have other ideas for how to list it.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#292: Dec 25th 2022 at 6:49:25 AM

That’s very helpful, thanks!

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#293: Dec 25th 2022 at 7:30:36 AM

Good idea Twiddler!

Also since I already reserved it for CM, calling Star Wars: The Bad Batch season 2. Open for collab.

Melinda Since: Dec, 2019 Relationship Status: Puppy love
#294: Dec 25th 2022 at 2:12:42 PM

My concern about Jordan is that he might be a Yandere toward Barb by the end and threatens to kill his own son, undermining some of his original magnificence.

Also, a rewrite of Sonia Alcana on the DC Animation thread is inaccurate, saying that her partners have grudges against Rupert Thorne himself when really her partners in the Collective Identity are gunning for Thorne’s two business partners, which the previous text and their own entries below reflect.

Edited by Melinda on Dec 25th 2022 at 2:12:59 AM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#295: Dec 25th 2022 at 2:33:09 PM

A little bit, but it's hardly the worst degradation I've seen—for reference, still talking about Icicle from Stargirl. He makes one freaky comment to Barbara ("we could have rekindled what we once had" when there was nothing that they "had") before going straight back to business, and his entire plan up until he threatens Cameron centers around giving him everything he ever wanted—once he actually does make the threat he quickly backpedals to goading Cameron into "killing" him for an easy escape. I agree he got a bit weaker, but he ultimately remains an impressive manipulator with well-intentioned goals that support his remaining magnificence.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#296: Dec 25th 2022 at 3:58:16 PM

Merry Christmas everyone! I found this addition to Margeaux's write up on Hitman: Blood Money. I found the optional dialogue between 47 and her and I think the addition is too much of a stretch, if anything the dialogue implies that she's figured out who he is and is giving him a hint at taking out her father (though it's not clear enough for me to add that either).

  • Margaux LeBlanc is the beautiful and charming daughter of Mississippi crime boss John LeBlanc who runs his gang in his stead due to his deteriorating sanity. Wanting to escape from the gang, Margaux hires Agent 47 to murder her uncle and former childhood molester Skip Muldoon along with his entire gang. Margaux then seduces her cousin Buddy and privately marries him. She then has 47 kill Buddy and John at a public marriage ceremony, allowing her to inherit the money from both families and become a high roller in Las Vegas. Judging by an optional conversation that 47 can have with her at the wedding, he seems to have figured her scheme out, and he subtly congratulates her for her cunning. This makes her one of the very few people to have manipulated 47 and lived to enjoy the benefits.

[down]Someone named darthbutters (also I forgot the spoilered bit is also an addition)

Edited by papyru30 on Dec 25th 2022 at 5:54:58 AM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#298: Dec 26th 2022 at 5:06:37 AM

Probably a good faith change by someone unfamiliar with the operating procedures. Just alter back and send them a PM there pap!

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#300: Dec 26th 2022 at 4:18:02 PM

So during the thread locks I noticed on Magnificent Bastard DC Animation under “Others”, the ordering of the works is a bit jumbled. It looks like initially the attempt was alphabetical ordering, but halfway down around Young Justice (2010) it switched to chronological ordering.

Any preference on which one we should use?


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